Sorry but I have to challenge you on this, it isn't right for systemd to be the only init that can be used on debian by default. > There is no "forcing" or "requiring" involved, and people spouting this > bullshit is getting _really_ old now. > > If any such radical change had actually been enacted then: > > a) well, we'd be in a different universe, where Debian was run by some > sort of overlord who was prone to making snap decisions on a whim. > > b) there would have been a mass bug filing for all these packages that > did not require systemd, to somehow add that requirement. > > c) there would have then been a vast wave of new package uploads with > the new packages, encumbered with those requirements. > > NONE OF THIS HAPPENED.
Incorrect sorry but I am not sure where you get your info from. > Debian didn't even make it so that other inits were somehow downgraded, > except for the fact that sysvinit is no longer the default on those > platforms where systemd actually exists (so on other platforms it's not > even the default, and most packages happily build on _all_ platforms, so > how does that sit in the same universe as one where systemd is "required"?) > > In fact Debian instead made efforts (much of the effort being done by > the Debian systemd maintainers) to make sure that is was actually rather > easier to switch between inits. The systemd folk even wrote extra code > to make sure that sysvinit and other inits could continue to support > programs where the upstreams have decided that they want to depend on > the services that systemd provides. That strikes me as above and beyond > the call of duty. > > What thanks do they get for it? > > They get unending inchoate screaming about how they are part of some > sort of global conspiracy, until they started burning out. > > The result being that they no longer have time, and certainly have no > inclination, to support systemd-shim, and the useless wankers that did > all the screaming of course cannot be arsed to put any effort into it, > so it's now rotting, and the chances of being able to continue using > other inits in Debian are now beginning to diminish. > > This is NOT because anyone forced anyone to do anything. > > If people were to decide not to post another anti-systemd rant, and > instead do something as trivial as reporting a single bug where > non-systemd-as-init was causing a problem, then there would be some hope > of making sure that other inits continue to work, but from what I can > see that is not happening. > > Instead people are spreading lies and scuttling off to the likes of > Devuan (who are also not addressing the issues, because they are not > improving application portability, because it's impossible to have > Devuan _with_ systemd). > > Also, note that Debian is still going to the effort of making choice > possible -- other ditros that switched have made the rather more > sensible choice of supporting only systemd, and thus saving themselves > the effort of supporting the minority inits. I really would like to see evidence of that. I tried to remove systemd on debian like three months ago for openrc and it dragged every bit of software off. So your thoughts are invalid sadly. > > I imagine that's why people are still bothering to attack Debian on this > since they imagine that there's a slim chance that we might switch > again, but what you have now is definitely the best you're going to get. > > As a parent of two small children I can tell you that screaming never > gets rewarded, and my children if they scream long enough will either > both lose the toy they are fighting over, or have something they like > even less happen to them -- I think that's pretty much the mindset that > most Debian Developers have adopted to people howling about systemd, so > be warned: > > Life can always get worse, and if you don't want that, stop screaming > and put some effort into building the world as you'd like it to exist. > > Cheers, Phil. From your response, you seem to think I am anti systemd, and that anyone who disagrees with systemd is a child. That is an invalid argument. I don't want systemd to be my only option that's all. I will say it again, I have only known about systemd controversy for a few months, but I will tell you this, it seems like a dangerous idea for all distros to use the same init in case something goes wrong. and the code is taken advantage of. Aka, one distro gets hacked because of it, a domino effect if you would will happen. By the way, I can feel your anger from your response. I am quite calm right now. Just relax, you use what you want, we will use what we want. That is the code of open source and even more so, free software. _______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list [email protected] http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to [email protected]
