Shawn/Bing: You guess hit the mark squarely. The ARS is dying a slow death, and unfortunately BMC is doing nothing to stop it.
Think on it for just a moment. If BMC would lower the price of the ARS down to, say, the price of the Visual Studio (somewhere in the range of $500) and abolished ARS user licenses (they could continue to sell the user licenses for their OOTB apps), think of how many copies of ARS they would sell. I've written apps in a variety of environments, and to this day the fastest and easiest I've found is ARS. Build an app in Remedy and voila! Instant app that runs in Windows and Unix environments AND is client or web-based. When people see how easy and quick it is not knock out a complete application, they'll flock to it in droves. But as is, the licensing model blocks newcomers to the platform. It's the "thanks but no thanks" effect. True, ARS has its diehards (us), but we are a very small community. -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bradford Bingel Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 12:07 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build Shawn, you are right on target! IT management culture has changed since the AR System's initial introduction. In those days IT shops regularly debated the "buy vs. build" dilemma, and there wasn't a clear winner. Today it's different, as IT shops regularly select OOTB applications -- "build" decisions are the exception, not the rule. And it's not about cost. It's about assuring the business that IT's "core" service management applications are maintained and updated by a stable and reputable company, not "Joe in development" or some goober-faced no-name outfit that no one (outside a small Remedy community) has heard of. There has also been some BIG money invested in Software as a Service (SaaS) offerings, and that market continues to grow exponentially each year. Unfortunately, Remedy's market continues to shrink each year. Yet BMC continues to refuse to provide free ARS developer kits to encourage the development of new applications/products based on the AR System, and they refuse to offer ARS interfaces for Java, PHP/Python, .NET, and other current technologies. BMC's current focus is on applications, not the AR System or custom development, so it's unclear what the future holds for those shops who continue to run "home brew" applications, or what the future holds for those developers who cling to the ARS toolset even the manufacturer has virtually abandoned. (Sorry for the depressing statements. And no offense is intended to any independent ARS developers or product vendors -- on the contrary, by successfully offering your ARS-based products and services you've accomplished something even the mighty BMC/Remedy marketing machine has not, and you should be proud of it!) -- Bing Bradford Bingel ("Bing") ITM3 California http://www.itm3.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (email) 925-260-6394 (mobile) -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pierson, Shawn Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:26 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build In addition to that, based on what I've seen, Remedy ARS developers get paid a lot more than .NET developers. Factor into that the difficulty in finding ARS developers, and management is more likely to pursue custom .NET development work as opposed to custom ARS development. If you leave the company, how long would it take for them to find a decent ARS developer willing to take your job for a 5% raise over what you get now? It would be difficult. On the other hand, you can probably find a decent .NET developer willing to get the same salary you do pretty easily. One of the best things about working with Remedy products is the good job market, but at the same time there isn't enough new blood and enough marketing of ARS to really make the development platform thrive like .NET has. You don't see BMC handing out free ARS server licenses on college campuses. Shawn Pierson -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build Yes...it is an awesome RAD environment but it's extremely hampered by its extraordinarily expensive licensing model. With another RAD (let's say Visual Studio .Net), you build the application and then never have to worry about paying a dime for application licenses. With Remedy you say, "Hey, we could knock out XYZ app in a day! Oh...wait...we'd have to buy more licenses...nevermind..." -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elry Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 11:57 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Buy vs. Build I have to say... There is nothing wrong with the ITSM Suite 7.x. It fits nicely into the ITIL Framework that a lot of companies "crave". But, there are lot of companies that realize that they can't run their business efficiently inside the Framework; therefore, custom build or find another product. Luckily, these companies are beginning to realize that ARS is a great RAD Tool with it's own IDE & integration plugins that make many other types of development "pale" by comparison... They are also finding out that the other ITIL based products out there are not as easily customizable, nor do they integrate well... In any event custom development will allow most companies to "nail" there processes then put a tool around it rather than "tyring to push a square peg through a round hole..." On Jul 22, 11:40 am, "Tanner, Doug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ray, > > Can you make your font just a little smaller :-) > > Old school custom builder - "Your Business - Your Way" > > I do believe for many reasons there are higher demands for custom > applications versus ITSM 7.X (It Takes So Much) > > Great tool, make it dance, - I am a firm Believer in "Remedy - Drive it > with Data" (as presented at past National RUG) > > But > > Do not want to be just a data administrator, Remedy is the most powerful > Workflow Toolkit available - USE IT ! > > Doug Tanner > > RSP (Former RAC) > > Visionary of Rem-Mail > > ________________________________ > > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Gellenbeck > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:48 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Buy vs. Build > > Am I the only one seeing a resurgance of contacts seeking experienced > custom-build expertise vs. install/configure/maintain/integrate folks? > > I know BMC's pie in the sky goal is minimal need for customizations vs. > configuration/data changes, but there seems to be a growing backlash > against this McDonald's approach. I'm only asking this of the group to > see if this trend is bigger than my areas of engagement over the last > couple years. > > Sure, there will always be needs for folks to step in an make > customizations here and there, but I'm suprised now at the number and > the scope of custom-build-from-scratch projects I'm getting > proposals/recruiters for compared to the past. Has ITSM mis-stepped in > its later releases or is it that the customer growth for the engine and > those upgrading has somewhat de-coupled from ITSM along the way? Have > that many old-school custom-builders disappeared? > > Send me your thoughts directly if you feel the board wanting to stay > focused on troubleshooting threads... > > Ray Gellenbeck > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __Platinum Sponsor:www.rmsportal.comARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" > html___ > > DISCLAIMER Important! This message is intended for the above named person(s) only and is CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY. 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