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>a
tremendous amount of HOPE is placed on the PCG to be able to pave the way for a
successful end to the ULFA
I think that is
everybody is hoping for, and PCG should complete that ASAP and get out and go
home. I think ULFA does not have any option now but to finish the talk
for a honorable face saving ASAP, now that the ball is rolling. But
the Oxomias are very 'leketia' jiwas, discussion may never end, because frankly
speaking I don't see any incentive for the PCG to end the talk quickly for
ULFA. If the govt is paying all the costs of PCG, why not continue the dialogue.
What is the hurry, brother. If someone asks questions, always answer with a
question.
>IF the PCG and subsequently the ULFA were to succeed in the
negotiations with the Center, it would mean certain GAINs for Assam.
Gains, which would otherwise >not be there. That is exactly why, like Santanu
Roy explained so eloquently sometime back, the bigger the support of the people
for the PCG and subsequently for the >ULFA's positions, the higher and better
would the GAINS be for Assam.
Gain is one thing, but PCG scaring the
people with the communist ideas will not encourage anybody to any omre idea
to PCG.
To seek suggestions from people is one
thing, but counter each and every dificult question with a question may gain PCG
in debate but not the support of the people if that what PCG is seeking. PCG
does not have any trump card to negotiate any gain from govt. If there will be
some gain, it will be in spite of PCG or ULFA. Basically, let the problems of
Assam be the problems of the people of Assam, and not of PCG's or ULFAs.
Reading the answers from PCG here, we are not sure we are going for the same
goal anyway.
RB
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 4:12
PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] On those who are
ready to give up their lives...
>> *** I don't have any quarrel with that. By all means they
should. But WHY should I or
>> anyone else accept the fact that just because Utpal Brahma
asserts he represents the
>> wishes of the Bodo people, it is indeed the unimpeachable
truth?
You don't have to accept just because I said so and neither do I
represent the Bodo people. But is it important or not to find out what could
be their wish or it simply does not matter.
I do wish PCG a success. Just wanted to point out some challanges they
need to address.
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>And tell me why shouldn't they
?
*** I don't have any quarrel with that. By all means they should. But
WHY should I or anyone else accept the fact that just because Utpal Brahma
asserts he represents the wishes of the Bodo people, it is indeed the
unimpeachable truth?
>Tell me how many members of other ethnic groups in Assam (apart
from Assamese >speakers) have you taken into confidence before you can
say that they want >their fate be determined by PCG ?
*** First off, the PCG neither has the authority, nor the ability to
DECIDE the fate of the people of Assam. It is a profoundly and obviously
faulty assumption and thus the questions/comments framed on that
assumption have little merit.
From what I read and understand is that the PCG is merely an instrument
to set the stage for a negotiated settlement between the Center and ULFA. In
that, they don't need to PROVE anything to anybody at all.
But at the same time, considering the reaction of the people across the
state and as could be gauged by newspaper reports, a tremendous amount of
HOPE is placed on the PCG to be able to pave the way for a successful end to
the ULFA
movement. It is to the PCG's credit that they are inviting comments,
ideas, participation from the people. One would hope therefore that those
who have Assam's welfare in mind, would participate, CONSTRUCTIVELY, instead
of attempting to demonize them personally or assign ulterior motives to
their efforts.
Anyone wishing to understand what is going on would want to know
why such a hope on the what the PCG might accomplish. One could infer from
that, by and large, the people do indeed identify with the PCG's mission. We
also know that a faction, including certain Assam Netters, DO NOT
identify or have any goodwill towards the PCG's mission. That is their
choice. Under these circumstances, it is them who are opponents of
Assam's interests. They are the ones DO NOT represent Assam.
IF the PCG and subsequently the ULFA were to succeed in the
negotiations with the Center, it would mean certain GAINs for Assam.
Gains, which would otherwise not be there. That is exactly why, like Santanu
Roy explained so eloquently sometime back, the bigger the support of the
people for the PCG and subsequently for the ULFA's positions, the higher and
better would the GAINS be for Assam.
However I realize that the option for pursuing the 'apwnar naak kati
xotinir jatra bhongo kora' ( to cut off one's nose to spite one's face)
remains open for the willing. And it has been hard not to notice the
consternation among the self-righteous of Assam Net trashing around not
knowing how to deal with being
inconsequential to the developments.
To assert that the PCG does not represent Assam or to assert that Utpal
Brahma represents the Bodo people's wishes are equally presumptuous
and highly unpersuasive propositions. Similarly the assertions of some of
Assam Netters , Indian newspapers and the like that the ULFA do not
represent Assam's interests are also baseless, or at best highly
questionable.
The ONLY way to be certain about these issues will be to have a free an
unfettered debate and a subsequent free and fair referendum.
But I won't hold my breath on that happening anytime soon.
At 9:08 PM +0000 11/2/05, Malabika Brahma wrote:
>> Utpal and others challenges PCG
to prove that they represent Assam.
>> Why? Obviously because
he/they believe it does not. How do they know
>> that? Are they
more informed than the people? You tell us.
How do you know that the PEOPLE may have
these questions too. Tell me how many members of other ethnic groups in
Assam (apart from Assamese speakers) have you taken into confidence before
you can say that they want their fate be determined by PCG ?
I am at least more informed about
the sentiments and psyche of Bodos than a lot of other members in this
forum. And I can tell you that the questions I raised, will be raised by
most of the Bodos.
And tell me why shouldn't they
?
Chan Mahanta
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mayur:
I reserve my right to reply to posts I
choose to.
I also do not read everyone's posts. Don't have either
the time or
the desire to. I can easily tell who is running with what
agenda.
And of those that I read,. not everything is deserving of
a response.
For many reasons. Namely, in no particular
order:
1: Utterly dumb.
2: So ignorant, that it is no use
replying to.
3: Disingenuous arguments.
4: People with an agenda
that is abhorrent to me.
5: Stupid assumptions.
6: Absurd
claims.
7: Comments that have little purpose other than to assert
ones
own righteousness, how prescient they are and so forth.
8:
Pseudo-philosophical gobledy-gook.
So on and so
forth.
Also, as much as I try to respond to people's questions
or
challenges, I get tired of obliging because my questions
and
challenges! rarely get replied to.
Take your own comments
for example. I challenged you in my last post about YOUR
SELECTIVE
outrage at innocent lives taken. What is your reply? You
try to
change the subject.
Rajib attempted to equate the thousands of
lives of Assam youth taken
by the Indian army, to the mindless
bombers at Delhi the other day
Is it an applicable analogy? Is it a
good faith argument? Rajib may
or may not have the mental capacity to
differentiate the two. But I
sure hope you do.
Having said
that I agree with your proposition that there ought to be
a a free
and fair referendum , after a period of unrestricted public
discourse
and debate, to decide what the people of Assam really want.
Without
that, the claims and counter claims mean NOTHING.
Utpal and
others challenges PCG to prove that they represent Assam.
Why?
Obviously because he/they believe it does not. How do they know
that?
Are they more informed! than the people? You tell us.
Reasonable
people could surmise that Assam's establishment and the
outsider
controlled business interests do not identify with the PCG.
Is it a
surprise? Heck no. Why? Because it does not want to have its
golden
goose killed either by a new independent Assam government, or
a
REFORMED autonomous Assam.
But is such an attitude something you
or I ought to support?
> >We must examine the pros and
cons of everything before
>misleading people by excessive
lionisation of a few
>individiuals and romanticisation of the
issues raised
>by them.
*** I agree. So why do you
indulge in it :-)?
But seriously, I never attempt to TELL anyone
anything and expect
others to accept them because I SAY SO. I make
every effort, even at
the risk of being too verbose, to explain my
reasons. Therefore I
have absolutely no qualms about anyone being
misled by my arguments.
If some are ! persuaded to my points of view,
they are so because they
understand and accept the logic/reasons. Not
because they are stupid
like you insinuate. On the other hand, those
of you who make
superficial judgements, without ever attempting to
explain your
positions, are the ones with a closed mind, smug in
your
self-righteousness, and oblivious of the ignorance with which
you all
make those
judgements.
cm
At
8:42 AM -0800 11/2/05, mayur bora wrote:
>Dear Mahanta
da
>
>Thanks for the reply which was on expected lines.
You
>can't compare Assam with Kashmir where the
situation
>at the ground level is entirely different.
The
>struggle there is much more broadbased and it
has
>strong religious overtones as well as underpinnings
of
>mass support. I can bet that not even 10% of our
>people
want secession from India. As I told you
>earli! er also, I am
game for a plebiscite preceded by a
>healthy and comprehensive
debate covering the entire
>gamut of issues.
>
>I have
observed that your response is often selective.
>I am eager to
know what would be your reply to the
>points raised by Rajen da,
Arindam and Tridip in the
>last few days. How you would like to
counter my point
>in the last mail regarding 'sacrifice for a
cause' ?
>
>We must examine the pros and cons of everything
before
>misleading people by excessive lionisation of a
few
>individiuals and romanticisation of the issues
raised
>by them.
>
>Bye for
now
>
>Mayur
>Chandigarh
>
>--- Chan
Mahanta wrote:
>
>> Hi
Mayur:
>>
>>
>> First off, your and others
like you who are
>> unwilling or
>> intellectually
unable to grasp and acknowledge that
>> the
violence
>> spawned by Kashmir has a reason, has a clear
and
>> well documented
>> history of its origins and
its steady worsening;
>> leaves you, Rajib
>> Das and
others with no credibility at all.
>>
>> The bomb
blasts at Delhi designed to kill and maim
>> civilians
are
>> unconscionable.
>>
>> But that does
not absolve India of its complicity in
>> producing
such
>> mindless violence that has gotten bloodier by
the
>> decades. And the
>> blood of the innocents are
on the hands of those who
>> were unable or
>>
unwilling to raise their voices against their
>> national
policies.
>>
>> How does one then explain the
heart-bleed only when
>> innocent deaths
>> strike
close to home? Is it not the lust for
>> real-estate over
people?
>> Have you shed a tear over the! 200 thousand
Kashmiri
>> dead? Are they
>> not people? Were they
all blood-thirsty killers that
>> deserve to be
>>
mowed down by Indian guns: Men, women, children and
>> the aged
and the
>> infirm alike? How do their humanity continue
to
>> escape you?
>>
>>
>> >
>They will try to
>> >justify by insinuating to India's
obsession with
>> 'real
estate'.
>>
>>
>> *** JUSTIFY, heh-heh!
Trying to spin out of an
>> intellectual bind, aren't
you?
>>
>> But words will not let you off the hook. If
it is
>> not me, someone
>> else, somewhere else, will
point out WHY it
>> continues to happen. You
>> cannot
run away from what you know!
>>
>> And I will stand
corrected, when you or anybody else
>> can explain
how
>> it is anything but lust for the rea! l-estate
minus
>> the people who call
>> it
home.
>>
>>
>>
cm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 2:25
AM -0800 11/1/05, mayur bora wrote:
>> >Well said Rajib. It
was extremely heart-wrenching.
>> I
>> >read the
tragic incident of two Assamese families
>> on
>>
>yesterday's internet edition of AT and Dainik
>>
>Agradoot. But people whom you are trying to address
>>
>with the example of this unfortunate event will
>>
never
>> >acknowledge the disastrous effects and futility
of
>> >this kind of mindless violence. They will try
to
>> >justify by insinuating to India's obsession
with
>> 'real
>> >estate'.
>>
>
>> >You can wake up people who are
sleeping.
>> >You can't wake up people who are pretending to
be
>> >asleep.
>&! gt; >
>> >Most
of the people who are supporting ULFA have got
>> >their own
vested interests. For the time being, I
>> >don't mind
giving benefit of doubt to a few netters
>> >who are
supporting ULFA due to my firm belief in
>> the
>>
>adage that no one can fool all the people for all
>>
the
>> >time.
>> >
>> >As regards
the desire to sacrifice life for a
>> cause,
>>
>less said about it is better. From the early
>>
nineties,
>> >we have seen how our guys start confessing
their
>> >secrets as soon as they are nabbed by police
or
>> army.
>> >Compare this with LTTE guerillas.
Some of our boys
>> >don't know for what they are fighting.
Most of them
>> >are not convinced of the cause. It is like
an easy
>> >status symbol. Of course, I don't rule
out
>! > exception.
>> >
>> >I can only
hope that vested interests of a section
>> of
>>
>the people will take a backseat in the greater
>>
>interest of peace and sanctity of human life.
>>
>
>> >Mayur
>> >Chandigarh
>>
>--- Rajib Das wrote:
>> >
>>
>>
>> >> Those who are ready to give up their lives
first
>> >> take
>> >> others' lives. Here
is one family's story from
>> the
>> >> Delhi
bomb blasts:
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.telegraphindia.com/1051101/asp/nation/story_5424590.asp
>>
>>
>> >> Wonder whether we should be putting a
halo
>> around
>> >> these guys heads? Or
necks?
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> >>
! >> >>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> >> Yahoo!
FareChase: Search multiple travel sites
>> in
>>
>> one click.
>> >>
http://farechase.yahoo.com
>> >>
>> >>
_______________________________________________
>> >>
assam mailing list
> > >> [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>> >__________________________________
>>
>Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home
>>
page!
>> >http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>>
>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
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Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice
2005
>http://mail.yahoo.com
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