Re: [Assam] IE: Anti-conversion law in Rajasthan?

Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:31:30 -0700

Thats your choice. One can calll anything one wants. There is freedom of _expression_:)
 
Umesh

Rajen Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That I would call a twisted Hindu logic.
RB
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] IE: Anti-conversion law in Rajasthan?

Rajen-da,
 
Just like Right to live does not mean Right to kill  --though everyone who is born must die sometime. Perhaps similalrly, just because religions spread by getting converted to a faith or belief -- does not mean that you get license to convert others.
 
Umesh

Rajen Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ram:
In one recent email, we discussed this very issue, (That Hindus believe that one has to be born a Hindu and that they donot convert)  and my answer was same as now:
The Tai Ahoms in Assam, all the Hindus in South East Asia, to say the least, were all converted to Hindus.  They were not BORN Hindus as you try to cliam.
Even in India, all non Aryans were were picked up and converted to Hindus en mass at one time or another, and that is how Hinduism grew.
So your assumption that Hindus donot convert was wrong.
 
To this you replied that you would check on this point and would respond.
 
I donot find the email now. I might have deleted. But that does not make any difference. If you donot remember, you may ignore my remarks now and just try to respond to the question now afresh.
RB
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] IE: Anti-conversion law in Rajasthan?

>According to the last email, you were supposed to check and >respond. 
>Just reminding you that you owe the net a response before >you jump to repeat the same thing.
>(At least Himenda is silent on several issues where he could >not respond.)
 
Could you please explain this or what you mean by this? Once you give some satisfactory response, I will then try to respond to the other points.
 
Till then.


On 4/10/06, Rajen Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>IMHO, this is NOT a win/lose game. Hindus are NOT in the conversion game because most Hindus believe that one has to be born a Hindu. They really don't care if someone >converts to Hinduism or not. My understanding is that Hinduism is quite restrictive in that sense.
 
As pointed out in some other earlier message, your understanding is not correct.
The Tai Ahoms in Assam, all the Hindus in South East Asia, to say the least, were all converted to Hindus.  They were not BORN Hindus as you try to cliam.
And if you claim Buddhism as a branch of Hindusim, then all the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Burmese, Thais, Laosians, Vietnamis wer converted.
Even in India, all non Aryans were were picked up and converted to Hindus en mass at one time or another, and that is how Hinduism grew.
It was the big fish eating the little fish.
The history of Hinduism is very clear on this.
According to the last email, you were supposed to check and respond. 
Just reminding you that you owe the net a response before you jump to repeat the same thing.
(At least Himenda is silent on several issues where he could not respond.)
RB
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] IE: Anti-conversion law in Rajasthan?

 
Good oints Ram-dda,
 
I think the Supreme Court justices took the same view as you.
 
Umesh

Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The Hindus know that in the Conversion game, they will loose >because they have nothing to show to these poor Muslims.That is >sad but true.
 
IMHO, this is NOT a win/lose game. Hindus are NOT in the conversion game because most Hindus believe that one has to be born a Hindu. They really don't care if someone converts to Hinduism or not. My understanding is that Hinduism is quite restrictive in that sense.
 
>because they have nothing to show to these poor Muslims.
 
And what would you like Hinduism to show or promise new converts?  It will be interesting to find out what one "gets" by converting.
 
>So Freedom of Religion without Freedom for Conversion does not >make any sense.
 
While this is true, it is still difficult to  uphold some kinds of conversion like in forcible conversions or by promising or enticing the unwary with cash or other things in this earth, or 79 virgins in heaven.
 
About Freedom of Religion, let us extend this a bit:
What if I think "my religion" requires me to advocate against gay marriages or abortion. Will any restriction placed on my practice curtail my Freeddom of Religion?
Just curious.
 
--Ram
 
 
 
 
 
 
On 4/9/06, Barua25 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It (the Freedom to Convert) also goes for the benefits of the Hindus. They can convert thousands or millions of poor Muslims in every city in India, if they want to covert.  The only reason the Hindus oppose Conversion, in my mind, is that the Hindus are not interested to convert these poor Muslims in India to Hinduism and serve them, because they know that these Muslims are enjoying a better life of equality being  Muslim than being a Hindu.  The Hindus know that in the Conversion game, they will loose because they have nothing to show to these poor Muslims.That is sad but true.
RB
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Barua25
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] IE: Anti-conversion law in Rajasthan?

 
Right to Freedom of Religion is intricately connected to conversion. For me to change my religion, I must be influenced by that religion and I will need somebody to formally accept me in that religion. >From another angle that can be viewed as conversion. So Freedom of Religion without Freedom for Conversion does not make any sense.
RB
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 2:30 PM
Subject: [Assam] IE: Anti-conversion law in Rajasthan?

 
Please note that Supreme Court in India clarifiied last year that there is definitely Right to Freedom of Religion but there is no Right to convert others.The case had been filed by Christian missionaries who want to convert members of other faiths - mostky Hindus but also Muslims (in kashmir etc) , Sikhs (in Punjab, Chhatisgarh etc) and Buddhists . The most famous Sikh to convert to Christianity -as per reports - was the Sikh King - Dalip Singh who then settled in London- while under British rule.
 
 


Umesh Sharma
5121 Lackawanna ST
College Park, MD 20740

1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005
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Umesh Sharma
5121 Lackawanna ST
College Park, MD 20740

1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005
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Umesh Sharma
5121 Lackawanna ST
College Park, MD 20740

1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005
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Umesh Sharma
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1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

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