Rajenda, That is where the problem is.
When we take medicine with the cognizance that it is medicine (because we know it is), many still believe there is a higher power casting his/her shadow and making us well. The crocin story is different: An illiterate man is given the pill without being told it is medicine. And when he does get well, he is told see Jesus saved you - there was no medicine, there was no jadi booti and yet Jesus saved you. That is fraud. So are so many other such strategies involved. May be some one has documented it online - I haven't checked. It is the same as reportedly some Hindu godmen pulling prasad out of their hair. Or these Christian evangelists in America doing tricks in front of crowds and getting some disciples to generally start shaking or something. To understand that this is fraud isn't rocket science. Oh yeah, since this is fraud not only does one need to stop the practice, these protagonists need to be thrown in jail. To C-da's point about intellectually tenable arguments, let's just be aware that there are no intellectually tenable arguments in the game. In the conversion game, it is mostly tricks that are played. Very rarely does a poor, illiterate tribal in the Bastar belt experience the right kind of God and under goes spiritual transformation in an intellectually tenable way. The Church's evangelizing ways around the world has many such tricks - not just in India. You might want to check out some of the news about the Catholic Church NOW trying to dissuade evangelists from using these ruses in North America and Europe. But the 3rd world is fair game I guess. --- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Exactly right Rajen. > > > >Why we are trying to single out the Christians as > indulging in fraud > >and leave the Brahmin priest who is making the > Indian give >'pindo' > >to his dead ancestor? All are frauds to the same > degree. > > > That is because the anti-conversion crowd could not > come up with an > intellectually tenable argument to support their > cause in a country > of self-professed but hollow secularism. > > The real truth is: This whole 'coerced' or > 'fraudulent' or 'forced' > conversion argument is bogus as a three rupee note! > > > > > > > > > At 8:40 AM -0500 5/25/06, Rajen Barua wrote: > > >When an illiterate person > > >is given Crocin (and perhaps for the first time > in his > >>life) to reduce temperature and then told Jesus > Christ > > >healed him, that is as simple as fraud. > > > >Frankly speaking I don't see what is the problem in > above. > >In all religions we more or less do exactly this > which may be called fraud. > >We take medicine and go to temple to pray to save > us, and when > >saved, we say it is only God who saved us. > >We study and go to exam and pray to Goddess > Swaraswati to pass in > >exam, and credit her for our success. > >We do bsuiness and credit our success to Sai Baba, > >We have small pox and pray ti 'Ai' and credit her > for the cure. > > > >Exactly in the same line, the Christian missionary > is saying that > >yes, you need to take 'crocine' but ultimately it > is Jesus Christ > >who will have to bless you to cure like any Hindu > God or Goddess for > >cure. We do this 'crocin' frauds in all religions. > Why we are trying > >to single out the Christians as indulging in fraud > and leave the > >Brahmin priest who is making the Indian give > 'pindo' to his dead > >ancestor? All are frauds to the same degree. > >RB > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Chan Mahanta > >To: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Rajib Das ; > ><mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] > >Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:02 AM > >Subject: [Assam] Analgesics to the Rescue > > > >At 8:04 PM -0700 5/24/06, Rajib Das wrote: > > > >>I defined it earlier. See the crocin story. > >> > > > > > > >When an illiterate person > > >is given Crocin (and perhaps for the first time > in his > >>life) to reduce temperature and then told Jesus > Christ > > >healed him, that is as simple as fraud. > > > > > > > >** Yeah I saw that. Crocin, an analgesic, to the > rescue? That is > >laughable. It does however point to the reasoning > abilities of > >certain people, who could and would willingly make > the argument that > >it might be enough for an 'illiterate' person to > 'convert'. I would > >submit, that the 'literacy' or 'education' of those > proffering such > >arguments is something that requires serious > evaluation. Read on, > >and you will see why. > > > > > >But let us accept even that as an example of > fraudulent inducements > >to drive them 'illiterates' to convert to > Christianity from whatever > >their faith might be. If it is Hinduism, then it > would not speak > >much of their Hindu faith--considering that it > melts in the heat of > >Christian analgesics like the wicked witches of > fairy-tales. > > > >Now then, could 'crocin' induced conversions be > reversed with > >stronger Hindu medicine? What if the Hinduttwa > brigades came to the > >battle with powerful weaponry like education, > social-work, and the > >really big guns--antibiotics? Could that win over > Christian 'crocin'? > > > >If NOT, why so? > > > >Umesh will argue that Hindus have no money! But > that argument we > >can safely discard. I am sure I would not need to > hurt anyone's > >feelings by going into a painful explanation of > why. > > > >So, why is it irreversible? Why is a 'coerced', > 'fraudulent', > >'bribery' induced conversion irreversible? What > prevents the misled > >from being shown the light and brought back into > the right fold? > > > >The only answers I can see are: > > > >A: These 'illiterates' are forever incorrigible. > > > > But this does not stand to reason. > > > > > >B: Once they touch Christianity, they never could > come back to > >Hinduism, or whatever faith they belonged to prior > to the > >'fraudulent' conversion. > > > > This might have some basis, on the 'jaat mora' > concept widely > > prevalent among vast numbers of Hindus. > > > > But I know why no Hindu above the level of an > imbecile would > > touch that explanation. > > > >C: That this whole 'coerced' or 'fraudulent' or > 'forced' conversion > >argument is bogus as a three rupee note! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>--- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >>> Define fraudulent. > >>> > >>> But the big question that no Hindu will or can > >>> answer is HOW can a > >>> forced, or fraudulent or coerced conversion > stick, > >>> unless the 'jaat > >>> mora' factor, an essentially caste based Hindu > >>> shame, is operative? > >>> What prevents the converted from reverting to > her > >>> original state, > >>> once he is explained that she was converted by > >>> fraudulent means, or > >>> deceived, or coerced? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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