C'da.
You fabricated the question the other day: Are you now saying >that NO
Axomiya officers/politicians have not shared in the loot?
There was no intent. But looks like I have thrown grammar to the winds, and also left out/inserted words that could change the meaning of what I was trying to say. Apologizes alround. Here is what was written: >>*** Can we now, with what we unearthed with these debates, agree that Sandip >>Dutta's >charge that " ONLY --- a few Axomiya officers and politicians have >>become rich at the >expense of these villagers" is at least BASELESS, if not >>entirely malicious, designed to >paint Oxomiya disaffections as THEIR own damn >>fault? C'da - this is a round-robin. No, we can't agree with your assessment. Are you now saying that NO Axomiya officers/politicians have *not* shared in the loot? Without the active connivence of Assamese Officers/politicians Assam would have been in a much better shape. The word *"NOT"* shouldn't have been there. Call it eager fingers, but that was in error. All I was asking if that was your opinion - ie. giving the Assamese officers/politicos etc a clean chit? Now to the other parts. >The degree or extent of corruption, as YOU or SD PERCEIVE is >entirely immaterial to the issue at hand. Unfortunately, the degrees or extent of corruption is very important. If it were insignificant, maybe we could stamp it out in a hurry. But if it is pervasive - its a different ballgame. Are these subjective? Yes, I think you are right. But there are certain ways one can measure right direction, wrong direction. Like some of the questions in my last post. We don't have answer off the bat, but we could find out. *>There is NO DETERRENCE of any kind. Not >ethical/moral/societal, and none
governmental.*
Looks like it is all chaos and nothing works. You are scarring me C'da, was planning to visit the desh, think I should change my mind? :) *>You know exactly where the problems lie, but cannot face up to acknowledging >them because I made it extremely uncomfortable for you to , years ago :-), by >connecting it with Assamese disaffections and ULFA's emergence to the subject. * ** I have not said that there are no problems. We all know corruption and bureaucracy affects nearly every facet of life. But, somehow, even within this chaos, some states seem to be doing far better than others. Whatever the yardstick is, all most people are asking is why can't Assam at least be somewhere in the middle. And if, as usual, you blame the whole system of governance, then a logical question would be how come even some states in the NE are faring better? Lastly, >Unfortunately you make yourself look clueless, over and over again, by putting >forth arguments like: *>>A number of have stated in these columns, that corrupt govt. or officers can be >>dealt with a coordinated effort by the media, RTI, people etc. Now, the results >>may not be immediate as one would wish, but a constant and frequent exposure >>of >corrupt officials and politicians would hit home ultimately*. part of your response to Bhuban da: *The lesson therefore is that unless and until Assam reforms its governmental systems by exorcising the demons of dysfunctional desi-governaqnce, there is not a chance anything will change.* ** Ok, C'da, I was just tring to visualize your solution and have come to realize its as cock-eyed as my solution:) :) I don't see your prescription ever taking place - you are after all going for the big kahunas - the GOI, the whole system, an independent Assam etc. My solution, vague as it is, goes only after the big fish at the local level. There is a good chance, if Assamese want it, they can change the way things are run, at least in Assam. After that is done, I will join you and others in condemning the Center for all other problems :) --Ram On 11/27/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ram: The degree or extent of corruption, as YOU or SD PERCEIVE is entirely immaterial to the issue at hand. Your assertions on the matter is entirely subjective. You or I cannot prove or disprove the extent or degree of corruption. More credible and knowledgeable people than yourself or SD will dispute your assertions. But that is not necessary. We both know that corruption is PERVASIVE and deeply rooted ALL OVER INDIA. When Prez, Kalam was agonizing over it last week, he did not pick Assam. It was about India. You fabricated the question the other day: Are you now saying that NO Axomiya officers/politicians have not shared in the loot? * * Can you show us when I EVER made such a comment? At no time have I ever made that assertion or even implied it. But the real issue is Indian governance: Its inability to stem this ever worsening phenomenon. The fact is that desi-demokrasy is so thoroughly broken that it has NO institution of state to charge-sheet, investigate, adjudicate and punish the guilty.* There is NO DETERRENCE of any kind. Not ethical/moral/societal, and none governmental.* * * * * *Question is do you or SD know that?* I don't know about SD, he may truly be ignorant. But I don't believe you to be so for a moment :-).* You know exactly where the problems lie, but cannot face up to acknowledging them because I made it extremely uncomfortable for you to , years ago :-), by connecting it with Assamese disaffections and ULFA's emergence to the subject. * * * Unfortunately you make yourself look clueless, over and over again, by putting forth arguments like: >A number of have stated in these columns, that corrupt govt. or officers can be >dealt with a coordinated effort by the media, RTI, people etc. Now, the results >may not be immediate as one would wish, but a constant and frequent exposure of >corrupt officials and politicians would hit home ultimately. That is your choice, and my pleasure :-). But you, and others who make such arguments are NOT contributing anything to a solution, by refusing to acknowledge the problem. c-da PS: I will send you another TS article in the next post. At 10:13 AM -0600 11/27/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, Thanks for the posting. Tavleen always does a good job of bringing these issues to the forefront - and legitimately so. TS correctly zeroes in on corruption as the root cause. But even TS will agree that there are stark differences even in this corruption when it comes to Assam and a state like Maharastra. Questions for you and Tavleen: Will Maharastra tolerate frequent and long drawn out load sheddings? How many villages in Maharastra are electrified (as compared to Assam) How many driveable road miles are there in Assam and Maharastra What % of the roads in Maharastra are absolutely deplorable (again as compared to Assam). No, these are just questions to ponder, and most of us know the answers. Comparing problems in Mumbai to those in Assam is like comparing NYC to Mumbai. It is mind-boggling as to why we have such a high degree of tolerance toward large scale corruption that is throttling the very life out of the state? Basically, it does not even matter if the rest of the states are more corrupt than Assam. They may be able to afford that luxury, Assam cannot. --Ram On 11/27/06,* Chan Mahanta* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am re-posting the following for Ram and Sandip Dutta to read, before I return back to the discussions. cm Horrible Condition of our Roads On the Spot Tavleen Singh The first convoy of official cars I encountered, driving to Pune last week, flew saffron flags on every car of the size you normally see atop temples. My driver spotted Bal Thakeray in one of the white ambassadors. No sooner did we pass Mcdonald's in Panvel (a travellers' watering hole) than I spotted another official convoy. This time no saffron flags, only a car filled with policemen in front of a grey Land Cruiser behind which was another car also filled with policemen and officials. Alone in the back of the Land Cruiser sat Sharad Pawar. The coincidence of encountering Maharashtra's two most powerful political leaders on the same journey made me reflect upon the role of politics in preventing India from building the infrastructure it so badly needs. Pawar and Thakeray would have driven down the same road I had taken from Mumbai so they could not have failed to notice its condition. It is no longer a road so much as a dirt track on which you bump your way from ditch to ditch to ditch. This is after you have driven bumper to bumper past Chembur's hideous slums where public toilets are so clogged that people prefer to squat along the main road beside the rotting garbage in which pigs, dogs and barefoot children scrabble for food. Did Mr Pawar notice? Did Mr Thakeray who has built a political career out of inciting Marathi pride? Mumbai is Maharashtra's proudest possession. Any talk of it being taken out of the State Government's control causes hackles to rise across political divisions and yet none of this State's mighty leaders appears to have paid any attention to the most basic requirements of social infrastructure: clean water, sanitation and housing. Had they paid attention, then instead of slums in Chembur there would have been affordable housing for the poor. Instead of evil slum lords there would have been legitimate real estate companies controlling the housing market. As for the dreadful condition of Indian roads, please allow nobody to fool you into believing that our roads are bad because of a shortage of funds. They are bad mainly because they have been built to last no longer than a single season of rain. Why? Perhaps because the contractors who build them are well connected enough to be given the same contract every year. You notice this more on the drive from Mumbai to Pune than on any other road because when you get onto the expressway you realize that India can build roads that do not collapse with the rain. Once you get onto the expressway you drive along the best road in India that has remained totally intact despite this year's unprecedented rainfall. When I asked a friend in the construction business why this was so he said, "Simple. The Mumbai-Pune expressway was built by responsible construction companies with reputations to protect.* Usually roads are built either by faceless* *CPWD engineers or by small contractors with big connections."* So one of the flaws in the system is that political leaders hand out major road contracts to builders who would not pre-qualify to build a public toilet in a more sensible country. The reason for this is that the system we devised for these things places total emphasis on cost and none on quality. He who makes the lowest bid wins the contract, so to cover his costs he cuts corners and uses cheap materials and outdated technology. He could not care less if the road he builds does not survive a single monsoon because he has, more often than not, a connection high up enough for him to get the contract to rebuild the road again and again.* This is true across the length and breadth of our dear Bharat Mata which is why we are internationally renowned for having* *the worst roads in the world.* I got off the expressway at Chinchwad which is one of Maharashtra's leading industrial towns. Many of India's biggest manufacturing companies have factories here and the municipality is believed to be one of our richest but the road I drove down was so narrow and gutted that I was stuck in an hour long traffic jam consisting mainly of massive articulated lorries with names like MAERSK painted on their sides. The eternal clash between the new 'emerging' economy and our ancient, socialist infrastructure. The clash would not exist if only we could get our political leaders to understand that unless they put infrastructure (both social and physical) at the top of their list of priorities we will still be talking about our 'potential' to be an economic superpower fifty years from now. If we can just build the roads and do something about the appalling state of our cities and towns we can start making our economic superpower dream a reality in the next five years.* These were the gloomy thoughts of your humble columnist as I drove past a sign that warned motorists to be careful on the upcoming* *bridge because its condition was 'dangerous.'* If we were really on our way to superpowerdom then instead of the sign we would have seen a repaired bridge. I could go on and on and on. 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