"Should" or "has to" be is the question here. If developed for an in-house or even a hosted app, there is no mandate that the code be given back to anybody. I am not into telling people what they should and shouldn't do, I offer advice based on my very limited knowledge only.
The decision to share is up to the person holding the code and the contract that I signed and am therefore bound to. Thanks, Steve Totaro Jim Capp wrote: > Steve, > > I'm confused. Isn't the code that was developed related to the JIAX > already GPL and therefore should be returned to the community anyway? > > Jim > > > > Steve Totaro wrote: > >> Dean, >> >> I wish it were mine to give back. >> >> I worked with/for a group. It is not my IP since it was not my code and >> even the stuff I did myself (not very useful anyways) was on contracted >> time. The contract was very specific about who owned the IP to any code >> developed. Technically, by contract I should not have any code in my >> possession at this point. >> >> The point is, the JIAX code could and has been easily modified to create >> a free Java web based IAX softphone if someone just did it. To me, that >> indicates lack of demand (in the opensource area anyways). >> >> Thanks, >> Steve Totaro >> >> Dean Collins wrote: >> >> >>> Steve, >>> I'm confused about why you decided not to use your development or offer >>> it back to the community? >>> >>> If you've got it and don't want to use it I'm sure there are some people >>> on the list that would like to see what you've done and implement it on >>> a no-support basis. >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Dean Collins >>> Cognation Pty Ltd >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> +1-212-203-4357 >>> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:asterisk-biz- >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro >>>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2007 10:49 AM >>>> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ? >>>> >>>> Dean, >>>> >>>> I think you may be right on the money with JIAX and the real demand >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> for a >>> >>> >>> >>>> web based phone. I worked with a group that "fixed" the freely >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> available >>> >>> >>> >>>> JIAX code (by Mikael Magnusson http://www.hem.za.org/jiaxclient ) but >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> had >>> >>> >>> >>>> no interest in giving the code back to wild, nor selling it. It did >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> not >>> >>> >>> >>>> take a few good Java guys very long to get it working the same as >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Mexuar's. >>> >>> >>> >>>> I was able to compile a workign jar from source myself with a few >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> changes >>> >>> >>> >>>> and I am not a Dev guy, let alone a Java guy at all (but it took me >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> the >>> >>> >>> >>>> better part of week). >>>> >>>> I think that the demand is not really there (yet). Most real world >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> people >>> >>> >>> >>>> would rather pick up a real phone and dial a toll free number than don >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> a >>> >>> >>> >>>> headset with mic and make a call via browser. I think it has some wow >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> power >>> >>> >>> >>>> to "our kind", but I think the average Joe would not use this until >>>> convergence is more complete to avoid putting on headphones (like a >>>> bluetooth link from PC to a hardphone or cell). >>>> >>>> It is similar to many companies that I consult for. The people in the >>>> company want to know the bare essentials to use the phones. Sometimes >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> the >>> >>> >>> >>>> higher ups are interested in advanced functionality but more often >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> than not, >>> >>> >>> >>>> they just want something to replace (insert phone system here) in >>>> functionality with a few remote phones or remote offices. During the >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> sales >>> >>> >>> >>>> cycle however, they are wowed by the possibilities which certainly >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> helps and >>> >>> >>> >>>> stands out from the crowd since there are no material nor licensing >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> costs, >>> >>> >>> >>>> just time. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Steve Totaro >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Dean Collins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion" >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:42 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> My suggestion was a $25 one off license per simultaneous call. >>>>> >>>>> Eg you run a small asterisk server in your office where people may >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> use >>> >>> >>> >>>>> it from time to time then it's a one off $25 fee. >>>>> >>>>> If you run a website with a community of users who get together to >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> chat >>> >>> >>> >>>>> with each other and want to restrict it to 10 people at once then >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> your >>> >>> >>> >>>>> fee would be $250 >>>>> >>>>> And lets face it if you cant/wont pay $25 then you aren't really >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> serious >>> >>> >>> >>>>> at any price. >>>>> >>>>> The question in the founders mind always was....how many people >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> actually >>> >>> >>> >>>>> want to buy this product (at any fee) and how many would use it if >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> it >>> >>> >>> >>>>> was free but really don't want it bad enough to fire up a paypal >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> account >>> >>> >>> >>>>> or similar. >>>>> >>>>> At the end of the day Tim spent a long time developing the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> application >>> >>> >>> >>>>> (and at only 125k in size it's a work of art), office space, rent, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> food >>> >>> >>> >>>>> and telephony, sales people/tech support salaries all cost money. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> Mexuar >>> >>> >>> >>>>> needs a return on their investment to cover their costs and a profit >>>>> return. >>>>> >>>>> At the end of the day they chose to go with the high end unlimited >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> use >>> >>> >>> >>>>> for a single reasonable fee of $US2,000 which means any service >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> provider >>> >>> >>> >>>>> or large company could implement it quite easily and they offered an >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> ASP >>> >>> >>> >>>>> service for one off licenses with a monthly fee. >>>>> >>>>> What confuses me about this whole space is JIAX. >>>>> >>>>> If there is an existing free application available, albeit free and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> not >>> >>> >>> >>>>> perfect, why haven't more people chosen to spend time fixing this or >>>>> offered bounties for it's improvement. >>>>> >>>>> At the end of the day maybe there just aren't as many people looking >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> to >>> >>> >>> >>>>> use this functionality as 'perceived' and my proposal is wrong. As >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> it's >>> >>> >>> >>>>> not my investment I think the founders of Mexuar made the right >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> choice. >>> >>> >>> >>>>> Will be interesting to see if a lot of people chime in on this >>>>> discussion and I'm shown to be right and there is a market for $25 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> per >>> >>> >>> >>>>> simultaneous call licenses. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Dean Collins >>>>> Cognation Pty Ltd >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> +1-212-203-4357 >>>>> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:asterisk-biz- >>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Rubenstein >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2007 7:33 AM >>>>>> To: Mike Clark >>>>>> Cc: Asterisk -Biz >>>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ? >>>>>> >>>>>> $5 per end user is way too much for little Web apps like >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> chatrooms or >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> sales/cust-svc chats, or anything where a given random user from >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> the >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> public on the Web isn't going to return at least $10 a year in >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> profit >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> from which that license can be paid. Even $5 per running instance >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> is >>> >>> >>> >>>>> too >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> high. The problem isn't so much the price, but just a per-instance >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> fee >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> as a limit to scale. >>>>>> >>>>>> The solution is a license fee on a middleware server with >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> traffic >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> capacities, and a free client. But if the middleware does't offer >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> value >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> of its own (beyond being the "key" for the clients to work), then >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> it's >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> going to be a nuisance. In any case, the client should be free. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> Which >>> >>> >>> >>>>> is >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> one impediment to widespread development, which is a reason it >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> isn't >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> here yet. But since there is some development, with those bizmodel >>>>>> constraints, I'd think there'd be several options already for >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> "webpage >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> voice" integrated with the PSTN. These same business constraints >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> don't >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> seem to have eliminated any number of free clients floating around >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> and >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> seeing lots of use. Which are then harnessed to support business >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> models >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> relating to the business, not to the software used by the business. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 07:20 -0500, Mike Clark wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> They key is not creating a barrier to entry. It would be ideal if >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> I >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> could license a "Mexuar-like" client in small lots of 5 or 10 at >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> a >>> >>> >>> >>>>> price >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> of around $10 per license. You might even give away a "free" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> developer >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> pack of 2 licenses so folks can easily get started. This all >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> enables >>> >>> >>> >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> little gut to get in the game, and then maybe hit a homerun >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> resulting in >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> thousands of licenses. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dean Collins wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But Mike the question remains how much is it worth to you to be >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> able to >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> do this? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dean Collins >>>>>>>> Cognation Pty Ltd >>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>>> +1-212-203-4357 >>>>>>>> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> [mailto:asterisk-biz- >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Clark >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, 17 December 2007 5:22 PM >>>>>>>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Commercial and Business-Oriented >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> Asterisk >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Discussion >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Matthew Rubenstein wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dean, how would you describe Mexuar, with its embeddable >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> but >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> proprietary IAX applet, in that context? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ...snipped a bunch.. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm not Dean, but I'll comment here.I evaluated Mexuar and >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> really >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> it, but they had no good mechanism for a small developer to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> get >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> started. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> They wanted a substantial up front licensing fee to get going. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> OTOH, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> you turned out to be successful, it was a good deal because it >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> was a >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> time fee. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ribbit has a totally different model as they are a full blown >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> ITSP and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> have provided a Flex/Actionscript API to their Flash phone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> component >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> no charge to developers. I have an app ready to roll as soon >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> as >>> >>> >>> >>>>> they >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> completely live. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would love to see a similar type API to a Flash SIP or IAX2 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> component >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> where I could access my own Asterisk or Freeswitch server. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mike Clark >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> (C) Matthew Rubenstein >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-biz mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
