I don't think a java applet can be hosted code, as it will get downloaded before execution.
Zoa Steve Totaro wrote: > "Should" or "has to" be is the question here. If developed for an > in-house or even a hosted app, there is no mandate that the code be > given back to anybody. I am not into telling people what they should > and shouldn't do, I offer advice based on my very limited knowledge only. > > The decision to share is up to the person holding the code and the > contract that I signed and am therefore bound to. > > Thanks, > Steve Totaro > > Jim Capp wrote: > >> Steve, >> >> I'm confused. Isn't the code that was developed related to the JIAX >> already GPL and therefore should be returned to the community anyway? >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> Steve Totaro wrote: >> >> >>> Dean, >>> >>> I wish it were mine to give back. >>> >>> I worked with/for a group. It is not my IP since it was not my code and >>> even the stuff I did myself (not very useful anyways) was on contracted >>> time. The contract was very specific about who owned the IP to any code >>> developed. Technically, by contract I should not have any code in my >>> possession at this point. >>> >>> The point is, the JIAX code could and has been easily modified to create >>> a free Java web based IAX softphone if someone just did it. To me, that >>> indicates lack of demand (in the opensource area anyways). >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Steve Totaro >>> >>> Dean Collins wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Steve, >>>> I'm confused about why you decided not to use your development or offer >>>> it back to the community? >>>> >>>> If you've got it and don't want to use it I'm sure there are some people >>>> on the list that would like to see what you've done and implement it on >>>> a no-support basis. >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Dean Collins >>>> Cognation Pty Ltd >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> +1-212-203-4357 >>>> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:asterisk-biz- >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2007 10:49 AM >>>>> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion >>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ? >>>>> >>>>> Dean, >>>>> >>>>> I think you may be right on the money with JIAX and the real demand >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> for a >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> web based phone. I worked with a group that "fixed" the freely >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> available >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> JIAX code (by Mikael Magnusson http://www.hem.za.org/jiaxclient ) but >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> had >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> no interest in giving the code back to wild, nor selling it. It did >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> not >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> take a few good Java guys very long to get it working the same as >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Mexuar's. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I was able to compile a workign jar from source myself with a few >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> changes >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> and I am not a Dev guy, let alone a Java guy at all (but it took me >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> better part of week). >>>>> >>>>> I think that the demand is not really there (yet). Most real world >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> people >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> would rather pick up a real phone and dial a toll free number than don >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> a >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> headset with mic and make a call via browser. I think it has some wow >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> power >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> to "our kind", but I think the average Joe would not use this until >>>>> convergence is more complete to avoid putting on headphones (like a >>>>> bluetooth link from PC to a hardphone or cell). >>>>> >>>>> It is similar to many companies that I consult for. The people in the >>>>> company want to know the bare essentials to use the phones. Sometimes >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> higher ups are interested in advanced functionality but more often >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> than not, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> they just want something to replace (insert phone system here) in >>>>> functionality with a few remote phones or remote offices. During the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> sales >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> cycle however, they are wowed by the possibilities which certainly >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> helps and >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> stands out from the crowd since there are no material nor licensing >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> costs, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> just time. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Steve Totaro >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Dean Collins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion" >>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:42 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> My suggestion was a $25 one off license per simultaneous call. >>>>>> >>>>>> Eg you run a small asterisk server in your office where people may >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> use >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> it from time to time then it's a one off $25 fee. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you run a website with a community of users who get together to >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> chat >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> with each other and want to restrict it to 10 people at once then >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> your >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> fee would be $250 >>>>>> >>>>>> And lets face it if you cant/wont pay $25 then you aren't really >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> serious >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> at any price. >>>>>> >>>>>> The question in the founders mind always was....how many people >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> actually >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> want to buy this product (at any fee) and how many would use it if >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> it >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> was free but really don't want it bad enough to fire up a paypal >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> account >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> or similar. >>>>>> >>>>>> At the end of the day Tim spent a long time developing the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> application >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> (and at only 125k in size it's a work of art), office space, rent, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> food >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> and telephony, sales people/tech support salaries all cost money. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> Mexuar >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> needs a return on their investment to cover their costs and a profit >>>>>> return. >>>>>> >>>>>> At the end of the day they chose to go with the high end unlimited >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> use >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> for a single reasonable fee of $US2,000 which means any service >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> provider >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> or large company could implement it quite easily and they offered an >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> ASP >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> service for one off licenses with a monthly fee. >>>>>> >>>>>> What confuses me about this whole space is JIAX. >>>>>> >>>>>> If there is an existing free application available, albeit free and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> not >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> perfect, why haven't more people chosen to spend time fixing this or >>>>>> offered bounties for it's improvement. >>>>>> >>>>>> At the end of the day maybe there just aren't as many people looking >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> use this functionality as 'perceived' and my proposal is wrong. As >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> it's >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> not my investment I think the founders of Mexuar made the right >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> choice. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Will be interesting to see if a lot of people chime in on this >>>>>> discussion and I'm shown to be right and there is a market for $25 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> per >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> simultaneous call licenses. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Dean Collins >>>>>> Cognation Pty Ltd >>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> +1-212-203-4357 >>>>>> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:asterisk-biz- >>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Rubenstein >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2007 7:33 AM >>>>>>> To: Mike Clark >>>>>>> Cc: Asterisk -Biz >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> $5 per end user is way too much for little Web apps like >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> chatrooms or >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> sales/cust-svc chats, or anything where a given random user from >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> public on the Web isn't going to return at least $10 a year in >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> profit >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> from which that license can be paid. Even $5 per running instance >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> is >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> too >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> high. The problem isn't so much the price, but just a per-instance >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> fee >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> as a limit to scale. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The solution is a license fee on a middleware server with >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> traffic >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> capacities, and a free client. But if the middleware does't offer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> value >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> of its own (beyond being the "key" for the clients to work), then >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> it's >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> going to be a nuisance. In any case, the client should be free. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> Which >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> is >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> one impediment to widespread development, which is a reason it >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> isn't >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> here yet. But since there is some development, with those bizmodel >>>>>>> constraints, I'd think there'd be several options already for >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> "webpage >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> voice" integrated with the PSTN. These same business constraints >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> don't >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> seem to have eliminated any number of free clients floating around >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> seeing lots of use. Which are then harnessed to support business >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> models >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> relating to the business, not to the software used by the business. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 07:20 -0500, Mike Clark wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They key is not creating a barrier to entry. It would be ideal if >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> I >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> could license a "Mexuar-like" client in small lots of 5 or 10 at >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> a >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> price >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> of around $10 per license. You might even give away a "free" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> developer >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> pack of 2 licenses so folks can easily get started. This all >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> enables >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> little gut to get in the game, and then maybe hit a homerun >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> resulting in >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> thousands of licenses. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dean Collins wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But Mike the question remains how much is it worth to you to be >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> able to >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> do this? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dean Collins >>>>>>>>> Cognation Pty Ltd >>>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>>>> +1-212-203-4357 >>>>>>>>> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> [mailto:asterisk-biz- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Clark >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, 17 December 2007 5:22 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Commercial and Business-Oriented >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> Asterisk >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Discussion >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Matthew Rubenstein wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dean, how would you describe Mexuar, with its embeddable >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> but >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> proprietary IAX applet, in that context? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ...snipped a bunch.. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm not Dean, but I'll comment here.I evaluated Mexuar and >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> really >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> it, but they had no good mechanism for a small developer to >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> get >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> started. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They wanted a substantial up front licensing fee to get going. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> OTOH, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> you turned out to be successful, it was a good deal because it >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> was a >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> time fee. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ribbit has a totally different model as they are a full blown >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> ITSP and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> have provided a Flex/Actionscript API to their Flash phone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> component >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> no charge to developers. I have an app ready to roll as soon >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> as >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> they >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> completely live. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I would love to see a similar type API to a Flash SIP or IAX2 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> component >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> where I could access my own Asterisk or Freeswitch server. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike Clark >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (C) Matthew Rubenstein >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > > > _______________________________________________ > --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- > > asterisk-biz mailing list > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > _______________________________________________ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-biz mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
