Would it be safe to assume that if I retrieve two pages of a paged feed,
and the atom:updated element for the feed is unchanged then I am indeed
seeing a complete history of that feed?

If I retrieve page 1, record the updated time, and retrieve page 2 and
the updated time has changed, then I know new entries have been added to
the feed since I got page 1. There may be some entries in page 2 that I
previously saw in page 1. (The ones that have overflown to the next
page) I'll have to re-retrieve page 1 to get the new entries.

If I retrieve page 2 first, and then get page 1, and the updated value
has changed, I know that I am missing some entries. They were on page 1
when I first got page 2, but are now on page 2. (or higher) I will have
to re-retrieve the next page(s) until I find an entry I recognize.

If the updated value is unchanged, then nothing has been added, removed,
or modified in the feed. I can consider my view of the feed to be complete.

Am I correct in this assumption?

Thomas Broyer wrote:
> 2007/8/21, Nikunj Mehta:
>> Thomas Broyer wrote:
>>> 2007/8/21, Nikunj Mehta:
>>>
>>>> §10.1 of AtomPub I-D expects collection partial lists aka pages to be
>>>> /lossless/.
>>>>
>>> Seems like we don't have the same definition of lossless then...
>>>
>> Allow me to clarify. A lossless paging is the following (this is my
>> interpretation of §10.1 of AtomPub I-D):
>>
>>     The partial list of entries obtained by GETting the collection's URI
>>     combined with partial lists obtained by following the rel="next"
>>     links in each of those partial lists MUST provide the snapshot of
>>     all of a collection's entries *as of the time *when the server
>>     responded to the GET request on the collection URI.
> 
> OK, so we don't have the same interpretation. It means this means
> clarification in the spec (is it too late?).
> 
>> On the contrary lossy paging occurs when there is no such guarantee,
>> i.e., navigating between partial lists might produce the same entry
>> twice or more, might skip an entry completely because it "disappeared in
>> the boundary between pages".
> 
> Yup.
> 
>>> Partial lists in AtomPub are subject to the following constraint:
>>>     The first such partial list returned MUST contain the most recently
>>>     edited member Resources and MUST have an atom:link with a "next"
>>>     relation whose "href" value is the URI of the next partial list of the
>>>     Collection. This next partial list will contain the next most recently
>>>     edited set of Member Resources (and an atom:link to the following
>>>     partial list if it exists).
>>>
>> If I am interpreting this right (without any formal model of course),
>> then "next" implies the immediately "next most recently edited". To me,
>> that means lossless.
> 
> As partial lists are not defined to be "stable", they might be
> changing over time. At the time you retrieve the first partial list,
> the second partial list contains the "next most recently edited". But
> between the retrieval of the first partial list and the time you
> retrieve the second one, this one might have changed.
> 
>> I respectfully disagree with this interpretation per my argument above.
>> If the definition of partial lists and paging results in collection
>> feeds being lossy, then how would we guarantee any synchronization of
>> paged collections?
> 
> You cannot guarantee synchronization without an atomic operation or
> paging a snapshot. Requiring servers to create "paged snapshots" (i.e.
> as per your interpretation of atompub-protocol-17) would have too much
> implications: servers would need to remember each and every "edit"
> (app:edited) of all the entries.
> 
> The "partial list" thing is the Simplest Thing That Could Possibly
> Work. If you want a reliable synchronization, then either:
>  1. use another mechanism (RFC3229 w/ Feeds?)
>  2. re-start synchronization from the Collection URI partial list
> until you no longer need to follow the rel="next" link
> 
>> Sorry I have come a little late to the feed history I-D party, but it
>> looks like this spec is not strongly consistent with AtomPub (and the
>> fact that the two don't even refer to each other's existence stinks, IMHO).
>>
>> Furthermore, can someone point out which RFC or I-D defines link
>> rel="first", link rel="last", link rel="next" and link rel="previous"?
> 
> http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations.html says its Feed History.
> 

Attachment: signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Reply via email to