I think you may have got the wrong interpretation of what Jim wrote, Mark. He basically agrees with you. The reason for RAaus success is that it ISN'T club based like the GFA. I don't think it is coincidental that the beginning of the decline of the GFA was at the same time that the AUF ( now RAaus ) became a legitimate recognised form of aviation. Lots easier to get your certificate, buy or build a little bug smasher and go flying with a friend whenever the weather is suitable and you want to. Sailing clubs are having membership problems too. There just aren't the numbers of kids in dinghies that there used to be but I see plenty of kite surfers and board riders at the beach or any suitable body of water when the wind is blowing. No clubs. Now the RAaus success may be short lived, like the expansion of the GFA in the 1970s. RAaus has re-organised as a company and their new tech manual is causing some disquiet. People who went there to escape stupid CASA bureaucracy are finding that the RAaus is creating its own stupid bureaucracy (like the GFA has done) or that CASA is still in control ( see Jabiru engine debacle). I know of at least one who quit as a result from our airfield ( only 12 aircraft) and RAaus membership is, I believe lower now than it was a while ago. There is actually no good reason for the proliferation of "self administering" bodies, just reasonable rules embodied in the CARs for the operation of aircraft other than standard GA aircraft, like glider, motor gliders and ultralight aircraft. This is likely to help all the sport and recreational sectors as qualifications would be the same or similar with add on ratings for different forms of aviation while the basic regulatory qualifications are the same. By promoting the current splintered setup, CASA has successfully divided and conquered.
Mike > On 30 Jan 2017, at 8:45 PM, Mark Newton <[email protected]> wrote: > > A lot of the comments below are platitudes that boil down to, "I was born in > the 1950s and don't understand young people anymore". > > This is my surprised face. > > Sneering about planned leisure, social media, careful time management, lack > of appreciation for a circuit after sitting on the fence for hours on a rainy > day. It all just means that society has moved on to the point where YOU don't > get it anymore. None of it means people don't appreciate new experiences or > self-betterment, it just means you don't know how to cater to the ones who do. > > "Even bowls clubs are closing!" Hahaah Well, yes, they've been outstandingly > amazing at attracting a young crowd, haven't they? They're closing because > most of their members are dead. > > If your reasoning for GFA's shrinkage was accurate, RAAus wouldn't be going > great guns. > > For all their faults, I reckon half of their membership is sourced from ex > PPL holders who want something cheaper or without a medical, and the other > half is from new entrants who can engage with RAAus in a way that they can't > elsewhere. > > Book lessons at agreed times with a professional instructor, end up with > qualifications which transfer over to other forms of aviation when they're > ready for bigger and better things, and airplanes that cost less than > gliders, which they can enjoy with their mates at a time and manner of their > choosing. If they don't want to stay under the RAAus system, they can convert > to RPL and fly similar aircraft under VH registration with a CASA license. No > mess, no fuss. > > That's essentially the entirety of RAAus' success story. > > In its present form, gliding in Australia offers none of those things. Even > if kids these days didn't spend their time on risk-free non-competitive > sports and Playstations, it'd STILL offer none of it. > > I tweeted a Lycoming engine oil change over the weekend. Posted commentary > and photos of procedures, tools, technical tips, and airworthiness paperwork > to social media. As a result, I have another person who found enough interest > in the material to want to experience a first flight in my RV, another person > to whom I say, "Sure! We'll fly to the Hunter Valley for lunch. It's free, no > charge, just promise me you'll take a TIF at one of the Bankstown or Camden > flying schools and we'll call it even." > > So far, most of these "free" flights have been pleasant weekends, nothing > more, minimal followup. But they've also generated a PPL and two RAAus pilot > certificates since 2012, and another dude who already had a license convinced > himself to buy his own plane instead of renting. There's also one on the boil > in Adelaide who's half way through training but sunk his money into house > renovations; he'll be another PPL when he's cashed up again. > > Easy, isn't it? > > But hey, times have changed. Social media is a waste of time, all that > tapping on phones instead of enjoying the real world. Can't get people > excited about flying anymore anyway. Flying's like a bus trip, with no > benefit to anyone, no sense of achievement. > > Yeah, nah. Just have to identify and target the people who have it in their > blood, in their imagination, who want to do it, instead of randomly shooting > AEFs out of a cannon at all-comers with gay abandon; and then, having given > them a taste to get them started, give them what they want. > > When I finally hang up the silk scarf and flying goggles, I'll do it with the > satisfaction that I've replaced myself, that my retirement hasn't detracted > from pilot numbers. Betcha I personally have a better > first-flight-to-training-complete ratio than any gliding club in Australia. > It ain't that hard. > > - mark > > -- > Tiny screen, imaginary keyboard. > > >> On 30 Jan 2017, at 21:10, James McDowall <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I first came into contact with gliding in the early 1960's when my father >> took up gliding to satisfy an itch dating back to the late 1940's when he >> helped build a glider that ultimately ended up with the fledgling ASC. >> In those days, many people would spend their weekends (or perhaps do a two >> week course) sitting on the side of the airfield in all sorts of weather >> waiting for the chance to do a few circuits or if they were really lucky a >> soaring flight. Time wasn't an issue and no one thought too much about >> spending their Saturday nights in primitive accommodation. >> Fifty plus years later society has changed and flying for most is regarded >> in the same as taking a bus trip. The wonder of flying has been lost on >> most. Our WW2 pilots who formed the backbone of post war GA and recreational >> flying are gone as is the connection with their exploits - how many kids >> today will rub shoulders with a RAAF pilot, let alone one who has seen >> active service? >> Many sports are struggling to attract newcomers - especially in country >> areas which were the backbone of gliding. Tennis courts are ploughed under, >> football clubs merging to stay afloat and even bowls clubs closing. >> Whilst there are many reasons one only has to talk to fathers with school >> age children. Their weekends are driven by activities planned around the >> kids. These activities are so highly organised to be risk free and >> non-competitive you really wonder if there is any long lasting benefit to >> anyone as their seems to be no sense of achievement. Throw in the thuggery >> of social media and non-conformance is not tolerated. Taking the kids to an >> airfield to sit on the edge of an airfield all day would probably be >> regarded as a form of child abuse! >> But the biggest factor governing human behaviour today is TIME. Whether it >> is true or not the community is convinced that it is time poor - so poor >> that we cant even cook for ourselves for example. Everything we consider >> buying is now presented as so many dollars per week or month - we live in >> pay by the month society. This is not conducive to a discretionary spend >> like flying. Add to this that there has been no real increase in wages for >> about a decade there is little doubt that or many in the community who would >> have been attracted to gliding fifty years ago can no longer consider it on >> economic grounds alone. >> Unless gliding restructures itself to reflect the time constraints of >> society it will most certainly die. Unless students can make an appointment >> to take a lesson for example the completion rate of students will decline. >> Unless gliding aligns its independent operator rules with RA-Aus and RPL >> requirements and lets motor glider operations occur beyond the club system >> it will lose those people. It must embrace self launching and see any other >> form of launch as ancient history. >> The future of gliding requires the GFA to look into the future and at the >> society around them, and recognise that the club, state association and >> national association model is dead and re-model the relationship between >> itself and the gliding fraternity. OR if that is too hard hand the whole lot >> over to RA-Aus or ELAAA if they will have the disfunctional mess. >> >> >>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 6:29 PM, Richard Frawley <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> i suggest you have a reader failure then, do try a reboot. >>> >>> >>> >>> > On 30 Jan 2017, at 6:08 PM, Mike Borgelt <[email protected]> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > My iPad sometimes tells me " this message has no content" >>> > I'm surprised it didn't in this case. >>> > >>> > Mike >>> > >>> >> On 30 Jan 2017, at 2:33 PM, Richard Frawley <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> interesting, but in the end perhaps irrelevant. >>> >> >>> >> Analysis will show that the base driving interest that was present in >>> >> the primary age group during the halcyon period no longer exists and >>> >> likely never will again. There was in the people of that time an >>> >> unsatisfied latent demand to express themselves through control and >>> >> command that flying gave purpose to. What developed via clubs was in >>> >> response to an inherent demand and limitations of that time. >>> >> >>> >> That core need is no longer apparent in the wider community. Flying no >>> >> longer offers natural attraction but to a small number of our >>> >> population, which by observation is getting smaller and smaller. As >>> >> such there is no longer the need for response in the manner that was >>> >> previously provided. >>> >> >>> >> As to what gliding will be in 20 years time will matter little in terms >>> >> of what the GFA does today. As needs change and new services are >>> >> required then those services will be provisioned if demand is >>> >> sufficient, as that is the way of things human. >>> >> >>> >> As new people do cycle into GFA management on a regular basis, that is a >>> >> good thing, as flexibility and adaption are likely to be the nett result >>> >> which is what i observed during my 3 years on the exec. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> On 30 Jan 2017, at 3:50 PM, emillis prelgauskas >>> >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you all for the delightful conversation at ‘GFA negative >>> >>> advertising……' >>> >>> >>> >>> I thought I’d start fresh, on some items that move away from that >>> >>> thread above. >>> >>> >>> >>> It surprises me that the ‘but you are bashing the GFA’ legion didn’t >>> >>> pipe up. >>> >>> Perhaps it was because GFA are bashing themselves up in their Pravda >>> >>> list. >>> >>> >>> >>> There are diverse views across the glider pilot nation about what GFA >>> >>> is: >>> >>> - Some see GFA as being the whole of ’the sport'. >>> >>> - Some see GFA as an administrative benefit or necessity to the sport >>> >>> - Some (me) see this 67 year old organisation as having had its day and >>> >>> now being in its own generated death throes. >>> >>> >>> >>> For all the reasons already enunciated by others - self destructive, >>> >>> dictatorial, creating silos of irrelevant hierarchal positions which >>> >>> will never be filled because there aren’t enough volunteers left, and >>> >>> so on. >>> >>> >>> >>> The biggest hurdle for GFA is the loss within itself in its corporate >>> >>> knowledge - all the current incumbents came into a fully formed sport >>> >>> and try to re-imagine it in their own image without a skeric of >>> >>> understanding of how things came to be. (e.g. they don’t know what ‘the >>> >>> Valentine Curve’ is) >>> >>> ‘Those who don’t know their history are bound to repeat it’. >>> >>> >>> >>> With the benefit of longevity and a curiosity to track things (yes, I >>> >>> am the dude who did the quantitative measuring of successful and >>> >>> defunct clubs for the whole of Australia in the 1970s) I advise - >>> >>> >>> >>> - In 1949 the GFA was formed to be the barrier between glider pilots >>> >>> and ‘the Department’ >>> >>> - where glider pilots said ‘WE are the people who know how gliders >>> >>> work, they are not power planes, so we set rules appropriate to us >>> >>> - helped by the proposition (a la ‘The Castle’) that the Australian >>> >>> Constitution does not regulate aviation (which didn’t exist when it was >>> >>> first written), hence aviation is regulated federally only by the >>> >>> consensus of the aviation community >>> >>> >>> >>> - That original bottom up driven model of regulation of the sport by >>> >>> the sport, in the best examples of participatory democracy, lasted >>> >>> until 1981 >>> >>> - By then the sport had grown to 100 clubs, about 5000 pilots, and >>> >>> enthusiasm and volunteer inputs to ‘our sport’ which got it there and >>> >>> was propelling it even higher >>> >>> - So GFA has never been ‘the sport’, it has always been the external >>> >>> peripheral administrative element that we ‘needed to have’, and was >>> >>> thus always kept as small as possible. >>> >>> >>> >>> - So in 1981 the world changed, yes Richard, you are right. The system >>> >>> was re-written and has been re-written several more times since, by >>> >>> incumbents of their day who saw a great sport, and thought re-imagining >>> >>> it in their own image would both serve the sport and themselves well. >>> >>> >>> >>> - So gliding the sport declined to 2000 pilots in 50 or so clubs, with >>> >>> the unstated direction being the demise of the small clubs (less than >>> >>> 20 members), leaving commercial servicing, schools and big clubs. >>> >>> >>> >>> We are indeed on track in that direction. >>> >>> >>> >>> The barriers to achieving the goals of that objective (a more >>> >>> ‘professional' sport) is that it is being pressed onto the old model of >>> >>> volunteer cadre to achieve. >>> >>> And people not being stupid, say things (as per the previous thread) ‘ >>> >>> ‘why would I work at making my kind of gliding fail or be >>> >>> inaccessible?’, and stuff like that. >>> >>> >>> >>> Gliding is not a franchise that GFA owns. So people choose to bale out >>> >>> when the onerous impositions exceed the benefit to them, assessed >>> >>> against their definition of ‘the sport’. With many then going to other >>> >>> sport aviation; a barrier to hoped-for flow the other way. (Their tales >>> >>> of woe unimpress aviators from other sport) >>> >>> >>> >>> GFA does not control gliding, despite continuous threats and >>> >>> intimidation issued by it/them. Glider pilots agree to follow rules >>> >>> that make sense because these keep us alive. GFA is overlaying this >>> >>> with rules addressing ‘fear of litigation’ against themselves, to be >>> >>> shifted onto the volunteers. >>> >>> >>> >>> The current conversation, either in its form today or some future time, >>> >>> will result in the demise of the GFA. Glider pilots will find their own >>> >>> way to fly the kind of sport each group within the sport wants. >>> >>> GFA doesn’t have the budget to follow through the promotion and support >>> >>> to create the sport in their image. >>> >>> All the attempts so far (since 1981 to date) have thoroughly failed as >>> >>> noted above, and will continue to fail. >>> >>> >>> >>> Pilots and clubs (particularly the small ones) are right now debating >>> >>> internally what sort of sport they want. Paying lip service to ‘the >>> >>> authority’ and getting on with flying safely is a reality since 1924 >>> >>> (the oldest glider I have in my 2 dozen collection). >>> >>> >>> >>> Some pilots and clubs will decide to be ‘mucking about in boats’ style >>> >>> volunteering, and will attract like minded people. >>> >>> Some pilots and clubs will go ‘hire & fly’ with commercial support; and >>> >>> ditto. >>> >>> And all the other variants between. >>> >>> And really few pilots will aspire to the GFA view of itself. >>> >>> >>> >>> Welcome to the real world folks. >>> >>> >>> >>> Emilis >>> >>> (turn rant mode off) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Aus-soaring mailing list >>> > [email protected] >>> > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
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