Of course - but that doesn’t help at the club end when they want to “re-train” you because courses don’t fit their training (or maybe they want the tow and hire fees) - or you go backwards because you can’t get airtime
> On 31 Jan. 2017, at 10:07 am, Richard Frawley <[email protected]> wrote: > > or you can go to somewhere like Keepit for 4 days, get personal treatment and > many flights every day. > > > > > On 31 Jan 2017, at 10:46 AM, Robert Izatt <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> and >> Classic example - my son is a RAAF Instructor and a couple of the young guys >> in his squadron wanted to try gliding so he sent them to his old club. They >> went out paid their money and sat all day and helped push and retrieve >> gliders and finally got a short flight about 3 in the afternoon. They went >> back individually the next weekend, same thing, and one missed out because >> the weather came in late. They didn’t make a fuss about what they did for a >> living or their actual skill levels - no one knew. They just couldn’t invest >> that much time on a weekend. They didn’t go back. I have seen this dozens of >> times >> >> >>> On 30 Jan. 2017, at 8:10 pm, James McDowall <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> I first came into contact with gliding in the early 1960's when my father >>> took up gliding to satisfy an itch dating back to the late 1940's when he >>> helped build a glider that ultimately ended up with the fledgling ASC. >>> In those days, many people would spend their weekends (or perhaps do a two >>> week course) sitting on the side of the airfield in all sorts of weather >>> waiting for the chance to do a few circuits or if they were really lucky a >>> soaring flight. Time wasn't an issue and no one thought too much about >>> spending their Saturday nights in primitive accommodation. >>> Fifty plus years later society has changed and flying for most is regarded >>> in the same as taking a bus trip. The wonder of flying has been lost on >>> most. Our WW2 pilots who formed the backbone of post war GA and >>> recreational flying are gone as is the connection with their exploits - how >>> many kids today will rub shoulders with a RAAF pilot, let alone one who has >>> seen active service? >>> Many sports are struggling to attract newcomers - especially in country >>> areas which were the backbone of gliding. Tennis courts are ploughed under, >>> football clubs merging to stay afloat and even bowls clubs closing. >>> Whilst there are many reasons one only has to talk to fathers with school >>> age children. Their weekends are driven by activities planned around the >>> kids. These activities are so highly organised to be risk free and >>> non-competitive you really wonder if there is any long lasting benefit to >>> anyone as their seems to be no sense of achievement. Throw in the thuggery >>> of social media and non-conformance is not tolerated. Taking the kids to an >>> airfield to sit on the edge of an airfield all day would probably be >>> regarded as a form of child abuse! >>> But the biggest factor governing human behaviour today is TIME. Whether it >>> is true or not the community is convinced that it is time poor - so poor >>> that we cant even cook for ourselves for example. Everything we consider >>> buying is now presented as so many dollars per week or month - we live in >>> pay by the month society. This is not conducive to a discretionary spend >>> like flying. Add to this that there has been no real increase in wages for >>> about a decade there is little doubt that or many in the community who >>> would have been attracted to gliding fifty years ago can no longer consider >>> it on economic grounds alone. >>> Unless gliding restructures itself to reflect the time constraints of >>> society it will most certainly die. Unless students can make an appointment >>> to take a lesson for example the completion rate of students will decline. >>> Unless gliding aligns its independent operator rules with RA-Aus and RPL >>> requirements and lets motor glider operations occur beyond the club system >>> it will lose those people. It must embrace self launching and see any other >>> form of launch as ancient history. >>> The future of gliding requires the GFA to look into the future and at the >>> society around them, and recognise that the club, state association and >>> national association model is dead and re-model the relationship between >>> itself and the gliding fraternity. OR if that is too hard hand the whole >>> lot over to RA-Aus or ELAAA if they will have the disfunctional mess. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 6:29 PM, Richard Frawley <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> i suggest you have a reader failure then, do try a reboot. >>> >>> >>> >>> > On 30 Jan 2017, at 6:08 PM, Mike Borgelt <[email protected] >>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> > >>> > My iPad sometimes tells me " this message has no content" >>> > I'm surprised it didn't in this case. >>> > >>> > Mike >>> > >>> >> On 30 Jan 2017, at 2:33 PM, Richard Frawley <[email protected] >>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> interesting, but in the end perhaps irrelevant. >>> >> >>> >> Analysis will show that the base driving interest that was present in >>> >> the primary age group during the halcyon period no longer exists and >>> >> likely never will again. There was in the people of that time an >>> >> unsatisfied latent demand to express themselves through control and >>> >> command that flying gave purpose to. What developed via clubs was in >>> >> response to an inherent demand and limitations of that time. >>> >> >>> >> That core need is no longer apparent in the wider community. Flying no >>> >> longer offers natural attraction but to a small number of our >>> >> population, which by observation is getting smaller and smaller. As >>> >> such there is no longer the need for response in the manner that was >>> >> previously provided. >>> >> >>> >> As to what gliding will be in 20 years time will matter little in terms >>> >> of what the GFA does today. As needs change and new services are >>> >> required then those services will be provisioned if demand is >>> >> sufficient, as that is the way of things human. >>> >> >>> >> As new people do cycle into GFA management on a regular basis, that is a >>> >> good thing, as flexibility and adaption are likely to be the nett result >>> >> which is what i observed during my 3 years on the exec. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> On 30 Jan 2017, at 3:50 PM, emillis prelgauskas >>> >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you all for the delightful conversation at ‘GFA negative >>> >>> advertising……' >>> >>> >>> >>> I thought I’d start fresh, on some items that move away from that >>> >>> thread above. >>> >>> >>> >>> It surprises me that the ‘but you are bashing the GFA’ legion didn’t >>> >>> pipe up. >>> >>> Perhaps it was because GFA are bashing themselves up in their Pravda >>> >>> list. >>> >>> >>> >>> There are diverse views across the glider pilot nation about what GFA >>> >>> is: >>> >>> - Some see GFA as being the whole of ’the sport'. >>> >>> - Some see GFA as an administrative benefit or necessity to the sport >>> >>> - Some (me) see this 67 year old organisation as having had its day and >>> >>> now being in its own generated death throes. >>> >>> >>> >>> For all the reasons already enunciated by others - self destructive, >>> >>> dictatorial, creating silos of irrelevant hierarchal positions which >>> >>> will never be filled because there aren’t enough volunteers left, and >>> >>> so on. >>> >>> >>> >>> The biggest hurdle for GFA is the loss within itself in its corporate >>> >>> knowledge - all the current incumbents came into a fully formed sport >>> >>> and try to re-imagine it in their own image without a skeric of >>> >>> understanding of how things came to be. (e.g. they don’t know what ‘the >>> >>> Valentine Curve’ is) >>> >>> ‘Those who don’t know their history are bound to repeat it’. >>> >>> >>> >>> With the benefit of longevity and a curiosity to track things (yes, I >>> >>> am the dude who did the quantitative measuring of successful and >>> >>> defunct clubs for the whole of Australia in the 1970s) I advise - >>> >>> >>> >>> - In 1949 the GFA was formed to be the barrier between glider pilots >>> >>> and ‘the Department’ >>> >>> - where glider pilots said ‘WE are the people who know how gliders >>> >>> work, they are not power planes, so we set rules appropriate to us >>> >>> - helped by the proposition (a la ‘The Castle’) that the Australian >>> >>> Constitution does not regulate aviation (which didn’t exist when it was >>> >>> first written), hence aviation is regulated federally only by the >>> >>> consensus of the aviation community >>> >>> >>> >>> - That original bottom up driven model of regulation of the sport by >>> >>> the sport, in the best examples of participatory democracy, lasted >>> >>> until 1981 >>> >>> - By then the sport had grown to 100 clubs, about 5000 pilots, and >>> >>> enthusiasm and volunteer inputs to ‘our sport’ which got it there and >>> >>> was propelling it even higher >>> >>> - So GFA has never been ‘the sport’, it has always been the external >>> >>> peripheral administrative element that we ‘needed to have’, and was >>> >>> thus always kept as small as possible. >>> >>> >>> >>> - So in 1981 the world changed, yes Richard, you are right. The system >>> >>> was re-written and has been re-written several more times since, by >>> >>> incumbents of their day who saw a great sport, and thought re-imagining >>> >>> it in their own image would both serve the sport and themselves well. >>> >>> >>> >>> - So gliding the sport declined to 2000 pilots in 50 or so clubs, with >>> >>> the unstated direction being the demise of the small clubs (less than >>> >>> 20 members), leaving commercial servicing, schools and big clubs. >>> >>> >>> >>> We are indeed on track in that direction. >>> >>> >>> >>> The barriers to achieving the goals of that objective (a more >>> >>> ‘professional' sport) is that it is being pressed onto the old model of >>> >>> volunteer cadre to achieve. >>> >>> And people not being stupid, say things (as per the previous thread) ‘ >>> >>> ‘why would I work at making my kind of gliding fail or be >>> >>> inaccessible?’, and stuff like that. >>> >>> >>> >>> Gliding is not a franchise that GFA owns. So people choose to bale out >>> >>> when the onerous impositions exceed the benefit to them, assessed >>> >>> against their definition of ‘the sport’. With many then going to other >>> >>> sport aviation; a barrier to hoped-for flow the other way. (Their tales >>> >>> of woe unimpress aviators from other sport) >>> >>> >>> >>> GFA does not control gliding, despite continuous threats and >>> >>> intimidation issued by it/them. Glider pilots agree to follow rules >>> >>> that make sense because these keep us alive. GFA is overlaying this >>> >>> with rules addressing ‘fear of litigation’ against themselves, to be >>> >>> shifted onto the volunteers. >>> >>> >>> >>> The current conversation, either in its form today or some future time, >>> >>> will result in the demise of the GFA. Glider pilots will find their own >>> >>> way to fly the kind of sport each group within the sport wants. >>> >>> GFA doesn’t have the budget to follow through the promotion and support >>> >>> to create the sport in their image. >>> >>> All the attempts so far (since 1981 to date) have thoroughly failed as >>> >>> noted above, and will continue to fail. >>> >>> >>> >>> Pilots and clubs (particularly the small ones) are right now debating >>> >>> internally what sort of sport they want. Paying lip service to ‘the >>> >>> authority’ and getting on with flying safely is a reality since 1924 >>> >>> (the oldest glider I have in my 2 dozen collection). >>> >>> >>> >>> Some pilots and clubs will decide to be ‘mucking about in boats’ style >>> >>> volunteering, and will attract like minded people. >>> >>> Some pilots and clubs will go ‘hire & fly’ with commercial support; and >>> >>> ditto. >>> >>> And all the other variants between. >>> >>> And really few pilots will aspire to the GFA view of itself. >>> >>> >>> >>> Welcome to the real world folks. >>> >>> >>> >>> Emilis >>> >>> (turn rant mode off) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >>> <http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >> <http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring> >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Aus-soaring mailing list >>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> > <http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> <http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> <http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >> <http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring> > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
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