Mike, Is it good quality kitchen alfoil or that horrible no-name stuff? I would be looking for a nice gold foil lining myself.
Cheers Ben On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Mike Borgelt < [email protected]> wrote: > Well these guys claim to do so. > > https://firechampion.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzYDJ16vL1gIV0BNoCh > 0XawzrEAAYASAAEgLkVfD_BwE > > In the video though they say a failing Li battery releases oxygen. Maybe > most of that escapes on rupture and the extinguisher puts out the burning > metal/polymers/flammable gases. > > Then there is this:http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/safety_ > concerns_with_li_ion > > And this: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/ > 223245/what-type-of-fire-extinguisher-do-i-need-for- > lithium-polymer-batteries > > There's lots more. I Goolagd "Lithium battery fire extinguisher". > > All very confusing. I'm still not clear on what type of extinguisher to > use. > > Note Boeing put Li-ion batteries in the 787 and had a couple of fires > forcing re-design of the battery box. Airbus use them in the A350 now also. > > There was a discussion on Aviation Week and Space Tech about Boeing. They > subcontracted out the design of the battery system. That subbie contracted > the management system to Thales who contracted Yuasa for the batteries. > > The original subbie managed to burn down their test facility including > admin offices during testing according to one commenter. > > I also worry about current petrol engine motorgliders. Originally the > engines were up in the breeze on the pylon which was probably OK as you > would turn off the fuel and there wasn't a lot else to burn. Then the > engines ended up in the fuselage for noise reasons and the > > "firewall" seems to be a stuck on layer of kitchen alfoil. Some have a > nice red light on the panel to detect overheating there but IMO one > thermistor isn't enough and there's no extinguisher. Sure you can bail out > but the flaming glider is then a hazard to innocent third > > parties. > > Those of you keen on "certification" should realise it doesn't always mean > what you think it does. It can get political and "Germany Inc" has a lot of > influence. I've seen stuff in "certified" motor gliders that I wouldn't > sign off on. > > Mike > > > > > At 10:15 PM 9/29/2017, you wrote: > > What sort of extinguisher can be relied apon to put out a LiPo on Fire? > > On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Noel Roediger < [email protected]> > wrote: > Interesting. > > But the report doesn't really tell us anything we don't know about > LiPo's. > > SR 018, 019 and 020 are as useless as TOAB without requiring an > extinguisher to be carried - and there is none. > > I understand some manufacturers of SLS's already incorporate fire warning > systems but without extinguisher backup. > > Not with-standing, it must be realized that any type of battery can > explode. > > I look forward to the AAIB report on the certification process followed by > EASA. > > Noel. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Justin Couch > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 5:33 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] FES fire in the UK > > Here's the actual AAIB report: > > https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/ > 59c8f175e5274a49c07f4704/AAIB_S3-2017_G-GSGS.pdf > > > On 29/09/2017 7:02 AM, Future Aviation Pty. Ltd. wrote: > > Good morning all > > > > This was sent to me over night by a German friend of mine. > > > > As you can see, no mention was made of the type of battery used here. > > From my visits to the AERO trade fair I know that some manufacturers > use LiPo Batteries. > > They have the best power to weight ratio but they are known to be > extremely dangerous. > > I will attempt to find out if this type of battery was installed in this > glider. > > > > Kind regards to all > > > > Bernard > > > >> From UK, newspaper report: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> The Air Accidents Investigation Branch has made a safety recommendation > after a sailplane burst into flames shortly after landing in Parham > Airfield. On August 10, 2017, the glider sailplane set off from the > airfield between Storrington and Pulborough at 10.21am for a flight lasting > approximately two hours. The glider was flown normally to a smooth > touchdown, according to the AAIB, until the pilot heard an ‘unexpected > noise’. The AAIB report said: “As the glider slowed during the ground > run, the pilot smelled burning and the cockpit filled with smoke that was > moving forwards from behind the pilot’s head. “He vacated the cockpit > normally, without injury, and observed that the Front Electric Sustainer > (FES) battery compartment cover was missing and that smoke, followed > shortly by flames, was coming from the battery compartment. “The airfield > fire truck arrived promptly and an initial attempt was made to extinguish > the fire using a CO2 gaseous extinguisher, but this proved unsuccessful. > “Aqueous film-forming foam (AFFF) was then sprayed into the FES battery > compartment and the fire was extinguished.†> >> > >> > >> The pilot was the only person on board the glider, according to the > AAIB. > >> > >> He did not report observing any warning messages or illuminated LEDs, > when asked by the AAIB, although his attention was drawn outside the > cockpit during landing. > >> > >> The AAIB report found existing FES battery installations ‘do not > provide sufficient warning’ to a pilot of a fire. > >> > >> As a result, the AAIB made a safety recommendation that ‘all powered > sailplanes fitted with an FES system, must be equipped with a warning > system to alert the pilot to the presence of a fire in the FES battery > compartment’. > >> > >> The AAIB investigation confirmed the ‘origin of the fire’ was the > forward FES battery. > >> > >> The report added: “Its battery box was ruptured along the rear left > corner and the battery assembly was heavily fire damaged. > >> > >> “The rear FES battery box suffered from external fire damage although > the internal components were only slightly damaged and the cells remained > charged. > >> > >> “The FES battery compartment was heavily fire damaged. > >> > >> > >> > >> see also > >> > >> https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-special-bulletin-s3-2017-on-hph- > >> glasflugel-304-es-g-gsgs > >> < https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-special-bulletin-s3-2017-on-hph > >> -glasflugel-304-es-g-gsgs> > >> http://www.front-electric-sustainer.com/news.php > >> < http://www.front-electric-sustainer.com/news.php> > >> http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20170906EASAAD20170167E.pdf > >> < http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20170906EASAAD20170167E.pdf > > > > -- > Justin Couch                 > http://www.vlc.com.au/ > Java 3D Graphics Information          > http://www.j3d.org/ > LinkedIn           http://au.linkedin.com/in/ > justincouch/ > G+                        >     WetMorgoth > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Look through the lens, and the light breaks down into many lights. >  Turn it or move it, and a new set of arrangements appears... is it >  a single light or many lights, lights that one must know how to >  distinguish, recognise and appreciate? Is it one light with many >  frames or one frame for many lights?"   -Subcomandante Marcos > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > > *Borgelt Instruments* - > *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * > www.borgeltinstruments.com > tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > >
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