Is it not a silver lining that is optimal? Never quite understood the reference with clouds...
> On 30 Sep 2017, at 8:17 am, Ben Coleman <[email protected]> wrote: > > Mike, > > Is it good quality kitchen alfoil or that horrible no-name stuff? I would be > looking for a nice gold foil lining myself. > > Cheers Ben > >> On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Mike Borgelt >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> Well these guys claim to do so. >> >> https://firechampion.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzYDJ16vL1gIV0BNoCh0XawzrEAAYASAAEgLkVfD_BwE >> >> >> In the video though they say a failing Li battery releases oxygen. Maybe >> most of that escapes on rupture and the extinguisher puts out the burning >> metal/polymers/flammable gases. >> >> Then there is >> this:http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/safety_concerns_with_li_ion >> >> And this: >> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/223245/what-type-of-fire-extinguisher-do-i-need-for-lithium-polymer-batteries >> >> >> There's lots more. I Goolagd "Lithium battery fire extinguisher". >> >> All very confusing. I'm still not clear on what type of extinguisher to use. >> >> Note Boeing put Li-ion batteries in the 787 and had a couple of fires >> forcing re-design of the battery box. Airbus use them in the A350 now also. >> >> There was a discussion on Aviation Week and Space Tech about Boeing. They >> subcontracted out the design of the battery system. That subbie contracted >> the management system to Thales who contracted Yuasa for the batteries. >> >> The original subbie managed to burn down their test facility including admin >> offices during testing according to one commenter. >> >> I also worry about current petrol engine motorgliders. Originally the >> engines were up in the breeze on the pylon which was probably OK as you >> would turn off the fuel and there wasn't a lot else to burn. Then the >> engines ended up in the fuselage for noise reasons and the >> >> "firewall" seems to be a stuck on layer of kitchen alfoil. Some have a nice >> red light on the panel to detect overheating there but IMO one thermistor >> isn't enough and there's no extinguisher. Sure you can bail out but the >> flaming glider is then a hazard to innocent third >> >> parties. >> >> Those of you keen on "certification" should realise it doesn't always mean >> what you think it does. It can get political and "Germany Inc" has a lot of >> influence. I've seen stuff in "certified" motor gliders that I wouldn't sign >> off on. >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> At 10:15 PM 9/29/2017, you wrote: >>> What sort of extinguisher can be relied apon to put out a LiPo on Fire? >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Noel Roediger < [email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> Interesting. >>> >>> But the report doesn't really tell us anything we don't know about LiPo's. >>> >>> SR 018, 019 and 020 are as useless as TOAB without requiring an >>> extinguisher to be carried - and there is none. >>> >>> I understand some manufacturers of SLS's already incorporate fire warning >>> systems but without extinguisher backup. >>> >>> Not with-standing, it must be realized that any type of battery can explode. >>> >>> I look forward to the AAIB report on the certification process followed by >>> EASA. >>> >>> Noel. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:[email protected]] On >>> Behalf Of Justin Couch >>> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 5:33 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] FES fire in the UK >>> >>> Here's the actual AAIB report: >>> >>> https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/59c8f175e5274a49c07f4704/AAIB_S3-2017_G-GSGS.pdf >>> >>> >>> >>> On 29/09/2017 7:02 AM, Future Aviation Pty. Ltd. wrote: >>> > Good morning all >>> > >>> > This was sent to me over night by a German friend of mine. >>> > >>> > As you can see, no mention was made of the type of battery used here. >>> > From my visits to the AERO trade fair I know that some manufacturers >>> >use LiPo Batteries. >>> > They have the best power to weight ratio but they are known to be >>> > extremely dangerous. >>> > I will attempt to find out if this type of battery was installed in this >>> > glider. >>> > >>> > Kind regards to all >>> > >>> > Bernard >>> > >>> >> From UK, newspaper report: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> The Air Accidents Investigation Branch has made a safety recommendation >>> >> after a sailplane burst into flames shortly after landing in Parham >>> >> Airfield. On August 10, 2017, the glider sailplane set off from the >>> >> airfield between Storrington and Pulborough at 10.21am for a flight >>> >> lasting approximately two hours. The glider was flown normally to a >>> >> smooth touchdown, according to the AAIB, until the pilot heard an >>> >> ‘unexpected noise’. The AAIB report said: “As the glider slowed >>> >> during the ground run, the pilot smelled burning and the cockpit filled >>> >> with smoke that was moving forwards from behind the pilot’s head. >>> >> “He vacated the cockpit normally, without injury, and observed that >>> >> the Front Electric Sustainer (FES) battery compartment cover was missing >>> >> and that smoke, followed shortly by flames, was coming from the battery >>> >> compartment. “The airfield fire truck arrived promptly and an initial >>> >> attempt was made to extinguish the fire using a CO2 gaseous >>> >> extinguisher, but this proved unsuccessful. “Aqueous film-forming foam >>> >> (AFFF) was then sprayed into the FES battery compartment and the fire >>> >> was extinguished.†>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> The pilot was the only person on board the glider, according to the AAIB. >>> >> >>> >> He did not report observing any warning messages or illuminated LEDs, >>> >> when asked by the AAIB, although his attention was drawn outside the >>> >> cockpit during landing. >>> >> >>> >> The AAIB report found existing FES battery installations ‘do not >>> >> provide sufficient warning’ to a pilot of a fire. >>> >> >>> >> As a result, the AAIB made a safety recommendation that ‘all powered >>> >> sailplanes fitted with an FES system, must be equipped with a warning >>> >> system to alert the pilot to the presence of a fire in the FES battery >>> >> compartment’. >>> >> >>> >> The AAIB investigation confirmed the ‘origin of the fire’ was the >>> >> forward FES battery. >>> >> >>> >> The report added: “Its battery box was ruptured along the rear left >>> >> corner and the battery assembly was heavily fire damaged. >>> >> >>> >> “The rear FES battery box suffered from external fire damage although >>> >> the internal components were only slightly damaged and the cells >>> >> remained charged. >>> >> >>> >> “The FES battery compartment was heavily fire damaged. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> see also >>> >> >>> >> https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-special-bulletin-s3-2017-on-hph- >>> >> glasflugel-304-es-g-gsgs >>> >> < https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-special-bulletin-s3-2017-on-hph >>> >> -glasflugel-304-es-g-gsgs> >>> >> http://www.front-electric-sustainer.com/news.php >>> >> < http://www.front-electric-sustainer.com/news.php> >>> >> http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20170906EASAAD20170167E.pdf >>> >> < http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20170906EASAAD20170167E.pdf > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Justin Couch                 >>> http://www.vlc.com.au/ >>> Java 3D Graphics Information          >>> http://www.j3d.org/ >>> LinkedIn           >>> http://au.linkedin.com/in/justincouch/ >>> G+                         >>>    WetMorgoth >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> "Look through the lens, and the light breaks down into many lights. >>>  Turn it or move it, and a new set of arrangements appears... is it >>>  a single light or many lights, lights that one must know how to >>>  distinguish, recognise and appreciate? Is it one light with many >>>  frames or one frame for many lights?"   -Subcomandante Marcos >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring >> instrumentation since 1978 >> www.borgeltinstruments.com >> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 >> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >> > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
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