John The answer to point 1 is that GFA have decided to charge, but not actually invoice, clubs the $500 for the book of 100 Introductory membership forms. As forms are returned with payment by the club, the $500 amount reduces accordingly towards zero. Of course, as others have pointed out, losing or not returning a form effectively incurs a $5 charge. How you argue with GFA when the book is empty and there are forms which are not accounted for is unclear e.g. what happens if a club member makes a mistake and then rips the whole form out ? Our club does 500+ TIFs (now AEFs) a year and I have no reason whatsoever to believe that we rort the system - every form used is returned to GFA as it should be. So, to alleviate the concerns of GFA that some clubs are ripping up forms if the flight goes without incident, they penalise everyone else. Surely they must have their suspicions as to which clubs are doing the wrong thing - why not go after then directly and leave the rest of us honest operators alone ? The way around the $500 noose around your club's neck is to use the large membership forms which can be used for anything from full (12 month) to introductory (3 day) GFA membership. There's (presently) no charge for these forms. The answer to your point 2 can be found on the GFA web site. See http://www.gfa.org.au/admin/fees2001.pdf Introductory student membeship is still $2. Regards Jason Armistead ----- Original Message ----- From: John Giddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:24 PM Subject: AEF Membership Form costs. was:Re: [aus-soaring] Joyflights/AEF's > As an extension of this discussion, I have heard that GFA is > now going to charge in advance for issuing books of forms > for the three-day Temporary Membership. > I.e. a club will have to shell out $500 to get a book of 100 > forms. > Two points emerge: > 1. This will put a big strain on some club's finances. > 2. What about the Student fee of $2.00 ?? Does the club > request a refund of $3 for each student Temporary member, or > has that category disappeared ? > > Can anyone comment on the above please ? > > John G. > > John Giddy > 5/287 Barkers Rd > Kew, Vic. 3101 > Australia > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jason Armistead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 2:24 PM > Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Joyflights/AEF's > > > | Stuart > | > | This also raises the issue of Yellow Pages advertisements, > or even Club web > | sites ... > | > | Jason > | ----- Original Message ----- > | From: Stuart & Kerri Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:05 PM > | Subject: RE: [aus-soaring] Joyflights/AEF's > | > | > | > Looking for a legal opinion here. > | > > | > If the sign advertising the presence of the gliding > operation has "Joy > | > Flights" or something similar, then I believe this is > advertising > | flights - > | > therefore AOC required > | > > | > What if the sign on the road reads "XYZ Gliding Club - > Visitors Welcome" > | > Is that considered soliciting business, or simply > inviting members of the > | > public to enter and have a look at the operation. > | > If a flight follows this contact, I would like to think > the visitor is > | > taking the flight in response to their interest to visit > the club, not a > | > Joy Flight Ad. Therefore it is an AEF > | > > | > Serious answers only thanks. > | > > | > Stuart Ferguson > | > > | > > | > > | > -----Original Message----- > | > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > | > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On > Behalf Of Derek > | Ruddock > | > Sent: Friday, 6 July 2001 16:55 > | > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > | > Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Joyflights/AEF's > | > > | > Nope. Read my question again. The requirements are quite > clear once the > | type > | > of flight is established. > | > An AEF can have a flight with no intention of touching > the controls. > | > A joyflight can have a flight with no intention of > touching the controls. > | > This is the reason I asked for clarification: how is one > to determine > | which > | > of the above scenarios identifies that a flight is a > charter rather that > | an > | > AEF?. > | > Take the following scenarios: > | > 1) a person walking down the street sees gliders > overhead and decides that > | > they would like to try it. they find their way to the > field, make > | enquiries > | > and decide to take a flight,but do not want to touch the > controls at all, > | > but just wish to enjoy the scenery and take a few > photos, thank you very > | > much. > | > 2) a person walking down the street sees a small > billboard about gliding > | and > | > decides that they would like to try it. They find their > way to the field, > | > make enquiries and decide to take a flight,but do not > want to touch the > | > controls at all, but just wish to enjoy the scenery and > take a few photos, > | > thank you very much. > | > My understanding is that, although both people wish to > fly, and neither > | > wants to touch the controls, the only distinguishing > feature is that the > | > person in 2) responded to an advert, and therefore this > becomes a charter > | > fiight. > | > > | > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6/07/01 15:43:01 >>> > | > >On reading Daryl Connell's article in this months comic > re passengers in > | > gliders, there seems to be little distinction between > joyflights requiring > | > a charter rating & AOC, and an AEF requiring a AEI or > higher, and no AOC. > | > >The only difference I could ascertain was that > joyflights had responded > | to > | > an advert in the press or by the side of the road. > | > >Is this the only distinction between the two, ie the > advert? > | > > | > > | > There is more to it than that or we wouldn't be going to > all the pain to > | > make it clear to all our members. > | > > | > Charter - joyflight, going for a ride to see the views > and experience the > | > ride. > | > Must be flown by a "Charter" rated pilot.(Not an > Instructor or a Passenger > | > Pilot)This pilot must have a current medical. > | > The passenger must not touch the controls at any time. > | > the passenger needs fill out no documentation before the > flight as they > | are > | > covered under the "Carrier's Liability" insurance each > club must have as > | > part of attaining an AOC. > | > > | > AEF Air Experience Flight > | > Some one who is having a flight and be able to have a > go, t5hey don't have > | > to but the option is there. > | > Must be flown by a minimum level of AEI rated pilot.(not > a Passenger rated > | > or Charter rated pilot) > | > Pilot in command must have control of the aircraft below > 800ft AGL > | > The passenger or more correctly the student must sign > off on at least > | > "Short term" GFA membership this places them under the > GFA umbrella. > | > > | > See your club's copy of the MOSP Ops section 6.3 of the > blue pages for the > | > AOC requirements > | > Also section 5.2.3 relating to pilots and charter, and > instructor > | > privilages further on. > | > > | > Its basically defining the difference between a charter > flight primarily > | to > | > transport a body and an AEF is a training flight as > such. > | > > | > Regards > | > Mark Morgan > | > Waikerie Glider Maintenance > | > Po Box 320 Waikerie > | > SA 5330 > | > ph. 08 8541 2644 > | > fax 08 8541 2761 > | > > | > -- -- * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list. * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
