Jason
Very interesting discourse but I'm afraid you have the wrong John.
regards
John Ashford
Alice Springs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Armistead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: AEF Membership Form costs. was:Re: [aus-soaring]
Joyflights/AEF's
> John
>
> The answer to point 1 is that GFA have decided to charge, but not actually
> invoice, clubs the $500 for the book of 100 Introductory membership forms.
> As forms are returned with payment by the club, the $500 amount reduces
> accordingly towards zero.
>
> Of course, as others have pointed out, losing or not returning a form
> effectively incurs a $5 charge. How you argue with GFA when the book is
> empty and there are forms which are not accounted for is unclear e.g. what
> happens if a club member makes a mistake and then rips the whole form out
?
> Our club does 500+ TIFs (now AEFs) a year and I have no reason whatsoever
to
> believe that we rort the system - every form used is returned to GFA as it
> should be. So, to alleviate the concerns of GFA that some clubs are
ripping
> up forms if the flight goes without incident, they penalise everyone else.
> Surely they must have their suspicions as to which clubs are doing the
wrong
> thing - why not go after then directly and leave the rest of us honest
> operators alone ?
>
> The way around the $500 noose around your club's neck is to use the large
> membership forms which can be used for anything from full (12 month) to
> introductory (3 day) GFA membership. There's (presently) no charge for
> these forms.
>
> The answer to your point 2 can be found on the GFA web site.
>
> See http://www.gfa.org.au/admin/fees2001.pdf
>
> Introductory student membeship is still $2.
>
> Regards
>
> Jason Armistead
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Giddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:24 PM
> Subject: AEF Membership Form costs. was:Re: [aus-soaring] Joyflights/AEF's
>
>
> > As an extension of this discussion, I have heard that GFA is
> > now going to charge in advance for issuing books of forms
> > for the three-day Temporary Membership.
> > I.e. a club will have to shell out $500 to get a book of 100
> > forms.
> > Two points emerge:
> > 1. This will put a big strain on some club's finances.
> > 2. What about the Student fee of $2.00 ?? Does the club
> > request a refund of $3 for each student Temporary member, or
> > has that category disappeared ?
> >
> > Can anyone comment on the above please ?
> >
> > John G.
> >
> > John Giddy
> > 5/287 Barkers Rd
> > Kew, Vic. 3101
> > Australia
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jason Armistead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 2:24 PM
> > Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Joyflights/AEF's
> >
> >
> > | Stuart
> > |
> > | This also raises the issue of Yellow Pages advertisements,
> > or even Club web
> > | sites ...
> > |
> > | Jason
> > | ----- Original Message -----
> > | From: Stuart & Kerri Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > | To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > | Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:05 PM
> > | Subject: RE: [aus-soaring] Joyflights/AEF's
> > |
> > |
> > | > Looking for a legal opinion here.
> > | >
> > | > If the sign advertising the presence of the gliding
> > operation has "Joy
> > | > Flights" or something similar, then I believe this is
> > advertising
> > | flights -
> > | > therefore AOC required
> > | >
> > | > What if the sign on the road reads "XYZ Gliding Club -
> > Visitors Welcome"
> > | > Is that considered soliciting business, or simply
> > inviting members of the
> > | > public to enter and have a look at the operation.
> > | > If a flight follows this contact, I would like to think
> > the visitor is
> > | > taking the flight in response to their interest to visit
> > the club, not a
> > | > Joy Flight Ad. Therefore it is an AEF
> > | >
> > | > Serious answers only thanks.
> > | >
> > | > Stuart Ferguson
> > | >
> > | >
> > | >
> > | > -----Original Message-----
> > | > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > | > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
> > Behalf Of Derek
> > | Ruddock
> > | > Sent: Friday, 6 July 2001 16:55
> > | > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > | > Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Joyflights/AEF's
> > | >
> > | > Nope. Read my question again. The requirements are quite
> > clear once the
> > | type
> > | > of flight is established.
> > | > An AEF can have a flight with no intention of touching
> > the controls.
> > | > A joyflight can have a flight with no intention of
> > touching the controls.
> > | > This is the reason I asked for clarification: how is one
> > to determine
> > | which
> > | > of the above scenarios identifies that a flight is a
> > charter rather that
> > | an
> > | > AEF?.
> > | > Take the following scenarios:
> > | > 1) a person walking down the street sees gliders
> > overhead and decides that
> > | > they would like to try it. they find their way to the
> > field, make
> > | enquiries
> > | > and decide to take a flight,but do not want to touch the
> > controls at all,
> > | > but just wish to enjoy the scenery and take a few
> > photos, thank you very
> > | > much.
> > | > 2) a person walking down the street sees a small
> > billboard about gliding
> > | and
> > | > decides that they would like to try it. They find their
> > way to the field,
> > | > make enquiries and decide to take a flight,but do not
> > want to touch the
> > | > controls at all, but just wish to enjoy the scenery and
> > take a few photos,
> > | > thank you very much.
> > | > My understanding is that, although both people wish to
> > fly, and neither
> > | > wants to touch the controls, the only distinguishing
> > feature is that the
> > | > person in 2) responded to an advert, and therefore this
> > becomes a charter
> > | > fiight.
> > | >
> > | > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6/07/01 15:43:01 >>>
> > | > >On reading Daryl Connell's article in this months comic
> > re passengers in
> > | > gliders, there seems to be little distinction between
> > joyflights requiring
> > | > a charter rating & AOC, and an AEF requiring a AEI or
> > higher, and no AOC.
> > | > >The only difference I could ascertain was that
> > joyflights had responded
> > | to
> > | > an advert in the press or by the side of the road.
> > | > >Is this the only distinction between the two, ie the
> > advert?
> > | >
> > | >
> > | > There is more to it than that or we wouldn't be going to
> > all the pain to
> > | > make it clear to all our members.
> > | >
> > | > Charter - joyflight, going for a ride to see the views
> > and experience the
> > | > ride.
> > | > Must be flown by a "Charter" rated pilot.(Not an
> > Instructor or a Passenger
> > | > Pilot)This pilot must have a current medical.
> > | > The passenger must not touch the controls at any time.
> > | > the passenger needs fill out no documentation before the
> > flight as they
> > | are
> > | > covered under the "Carrier's Liability" insurance each
> > club must have as
> > | > part of attaining an AOC.
> > | >
> > | > AEF Air Experience Flight
> > | > Some one who is having a flight and be able to have a
> > go, t5hey don't have
> > | > to but the option is there.
> > | > Must be flown by a minimum level of AEI rated pilot.(not
> > a Passenger rated
> > | > or Charter rated pilot)
> > | > Pilot in command must have control of the aircraft below
> > 800ft AGL
> > | > The passenger or more correctly the student must sign
> > off on at least
> > | > "Short term" GFA membership this places them under the
> > GFA umbrella.
> > | >
> > | > See your club's copy of the MOSP Ops section 6.3 of the
> > blue pages for the
> > | > AOC requirements
> > | > Also section 5.2.3 relating to pilots and charter, and
> > instructor
> > | > privilages further on.
> > | >
> > | > Its basically defining the difference between a charter
> > flight primarily
> > | to
> > | > transport a body and an AEF is a training flight as
> > such.
> > | >
> > | > Regards
> > | > Mark Morgan
> > | > Waikerie Glider Maintenance
> > | > Po Box 320 Waikerie
> > | > SA 5330
> > | > ph. 08 8541 2644
> > | > fax 08 8541 2761
> > | >
> > | > --
>
>
>
> --
> * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
> * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
> * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
>
>
--
* You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
* To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
* or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
