SDF, Sorry, but the fact remains that some gliders become involved in far more accidents than others and some seem to have very few accidents. The record of the Puchaz is quite poor in this respect including spin related accidents with experienced instructors on board. One English club has spun in 2 out of 3. The total number involved is a high proportion of those built. Please don't say they were all just careless or inexperienced pilots. I could say that your club has been lucky but that would be an unfair reflection on the obvious care and skill with which you operate, but please never let your guard down! I have no vested interest but by comparision how many ASK 21s have spun in? A friend of mine of high experience was killed when he changed from flying what is considered to be a forgiving glider to one which had the reputation of biting. In aviation we want everything possible going for us,
Harry ----- Original Message ----- From: "skf1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 12:40 AM Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Accident in Barossa valley > Harry, > Flame suit required. > > My club has had many years of safe Puchaz operations, and we plan to > continue that way. If a pilot flies an aircraft inside its flight envelope, > as trained, and inside their weather thresholds, there is a very low > possibility there will be a problem. > > I would like to ask the $64,000 question - outside of private owner groups, > how many pilots have read, and regularly review the aircraft handbook of the > aircraft they fly? My personal belief is the honest answer will be very > few. Is this a problem with individuals or an organisational issue? How > readily available are club aircraft manuals in your club? > > Is this the aircrafts fault?? > > SDF > > PS - no aircraft has ever crashed with out human assistance. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry > Medlicott > Sent: Tuesday, 7 December 2004 9:46 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in > Australia. > Cc: John Ashford > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Accident in Barossa valley > > Hi All, > > Fairly early in my gliding career my winch launching club bought an IS 29. > > I was so concerned by what I considered its unsafe winch launching > characteristics that I bought a Pilatus B4 for the use of my son who was > very early solo. > > The IS 29 has a very narrow speed range on a winch, bites very quickly and > unexpectantly, and the flap detente on the one we flew had a nasty habit of > jumping out and going into negative. Sometime after I stopped flying it > there was an accident involving power failure or cable break with a pilot of > modest experience. > > There has been one pilot killed in Australia winch launching an IS 29 and I > understand their accident record has been high. The one good thing is that > metal gliders crumple giving a higher degree of impact absorbtion than > fibreglass which shatters. > > I am a great believer in all pilots flying safer gliders. We do not all have > the same skill levels and everyone's abilities deteriorate under stress. We > have to look after those of us at the lower level of acceptable skill > levels. Who of us can say we have never been caught out momentarily by an > unexpected situation? > > Low level stall-spin accidents and resulting fatalities have greatly reduced > in Europe over a period of years. Credit for this has been given to the much > safer characteristics of modern gliders rather than any change in pilots > skill levels. > > My personal belief is that the importation of gliders with a poor safety > record, such as the Puchaz with its history of spin related crashes should > be discouraged or banned by the GFA. Wait a minute before replying until I > don my flame resistant suit! > > Harry Medlicott > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "John Ashford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:49 PM > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Accident in Barossa valley > > > > On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 14:59, Peter Stephenson wrote: > > > I recommend never to fly an IS29 off the winch for the first time > without > > > experiencing a stall at height. > > > > Rubbish Peter, > > > > What about cable/rope breaks? These can happen at low level even on an > > aero tow and you need to be ready to recognise and recover from a stall > > or spin without having ever seen one! > > > > This is exactly why we train people to recognise and recover from stalls > > and spins with minimum altitude loss (and brief on stalling/spinning as > > part of he conversion process to a single seater). > > > > There is absolutely NO problem with flying an IS29 off the winch, even > > if you have never stalled it before. How do you think people manage at > > winch only sites (quite apart from the stall/spin risk of an aero tow > > rope break)? > > > > What is necessary is that the individual is properly trained and briefed > > on the aircraft... > > > > a) so that they should not stall/spin off the winch (but we're all > > human, so we have back ups in terms of recovery actions)... > > > > b) so that they recognise stalls and know the minimum altitude loss > > recovery action instinctively (and have demonstrated this) > > > > c) so that they recognise incipient and full spins and again know the > > minimum altidude loss recovery action (and again have demonstrated this) > > > > If, as an instructor, you are not convinced that someone has got this > > down pat, then they should not be going solo in ANYTHING, irrespective > > of the launch method. > > > > If you are going to be an instructor, please think these things through > > before you start spouting rubbish in public. It does not do you any > > credit and, worse, it WILL confuse students (and even some trained > > pilots) who think that instructors are never wrong. > > > > -- > > Robert Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > +61 (0)438 385 533 > > Brisbane, Australia http://www.hart.wattle.id.au > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
