In the good old days of club class handicaps the handicapping was performed by a person who analysed all of the available polar curves, just as Anthony has proposed. At my first club class nationals the whole fortnight was consumed by people complaining about handicaps. The problem was that there is no definitive source of accurate polar curves. Dick Johnston had some, the Akafliegs had some, and many relied on the (elevated) polars from the factories.
The GFA sports committee at the time instigated a handicapping committee of experienced pilots who used their collective wisdom to produce our current handicap list quite subjectively. This has been tweeked over time following input from individuals, but the topic of handicaps has hardly been raised at club class since then. The numbers seem to work - although I think that the ASW19 is treated very well :) The same approach was then used for the multiclass comps when it was handicapped, and for the majority of gliders this has proved effective - although some people would say that the spread of handicaps is a little tight. I suspect that the issue we now have is for the brand new gliders coming in which obviously perform very well. It may take one or two comps to get the numbers right as our experience grows - it certainly looks as though they need to be stretched out somewhat. I would caution against returning to the academic analysis approach to handicaps. I fully support using the OLC handicaps, my glider does quite well with that list. There are quite a few complaints around the world about anaomalies within the OLC list - the good thing is that all of the pilots don't turn up at the one event to talk about it. Terry Anthony Smith writes: > Anybody got a hi-res copy of a polar for Ventus 2cx and/or > LS-10? I have had a brief search of the manufacturers > website and haven't found either yet. > > I have one for the ASG-29 though and have a reasonable data > fit for it. Not too hard to do a x-country performance > comparison against the others provided I have a reasonable > polar to work from. > > > >> Yo Jim, >> >> Good point mate re: the OLC handicaps, why not adopt them? >> The juniors lead the way in this one @ the JG just been. >> Obviously I wasn't there, but I've been told that they >> worked very well and fairly. >> >> Nick, have you got time to post a few comments re: JG @ >> Gawler? >> >> >> Regards, >> WPP >> >> P.s. Would be good to re-score a MC nats on the JG >> handicaps to see how the results would've changed the >> finals.. >> >> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 >> 13:25:56 +0000Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] -ASG29 handicaps >> >> >> Yeah, Brought this one up at Kingaroy multiclass when I >> attempted to fly the Mighty ASW 19 against LS8's etc, >> giving away 4% I recall. ASW 19 max wingloading is only >> 41kg/sqm, what's the LS8? about 54? Even when you consider >> only the glide angle, 4% doesn't cover the difference of >> 39/1 vs 43/1. True, bruce did well at Keepit in his 19 >> but he did win every day except one at Kingaroy in the >> std's last year. I would put the performance at Keepit >> down to Bruce, not the generous multiclass handicap of the >> 19. You just can't get a fair handicap of a 30 year old >> glider vs. a new one. Get rid of the handicaps. Don't try >> to encourage the rest of us with older gliders to turn up >> to make up the numbers with a few % here and there so you >> can tell us it's a fair system. V2 better/ worse than >> ASG29.......depends whose flying it. Uk system is worked >> out on a standard 4 kt thermal, same system as German >> system. NZ (who I believe have strong thermals or stuff >> called wave) have adopted the UK handicap system and use >> it in >> their multiclass comp.s. The OLC handicaps (very similar >> to UK) seem to work well around the world, why not adopt >> them? Ok, said my bit...... Jim >> >> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 >> 18:46:15 +1030Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] -ASG29 handicaps >> >> >> Handicaps are for mugs. >> LS1 1.0 >> LS4 0.94 >> LS8 0.92 >> LS10 0.885 >> This suggests that the LS4 is 6% better than an LS1 but an >> 18m flapped LS10 is only 5.5 % better than an LS4. Another >> way to look at it that in a 3 hour race the LS 8 gives the >> LS4 3 min 36 sec head start. What does this mean? I don't >> know but handicaps and common sense don't seem to mesh in >> my mind. >> >> Philip >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Adam Woolley >> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 5:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] -ASG29 handicaps >> A very safe reply there Bernard, no chance of anyone >> 'biting' in the below reply.. I just love this bit re: >> handicaps MultiClassLS10/18m: 0.955Ventus 2cxa: ???Ventus >> 2 18m: 0.955Lak17/18m: 0.955DG808 Competition: 0.955ASG29: >> 0.955 ClubClassLS10: 0.885Ventus 2cxa: 0.880Ventus >> 2c/cx/18m: 0.885Lak17/18m: 0.885DG808 18m: 0.885ASG29: >> 0.885Does this mean that the V2cxa has the upperhand!?! >> RegardsWPP >> >> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]; >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 >> 10:41:31 +1030Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] -ASG29 handicaps >> >> >> >> >> >> Hello Nigel >> >> Im all for fairness and a level playing field but Im > not >> the person to talk to when it comes to handicapping. >> >> I suggest you refer the matter to the handicap committee. >> >> Kind regards >> >> >> Bernard Eckey >> FUTURE AVIATION PTY. LTD. >> 10 Antigua Grove >> West Lakes 5021 >> Adelaide / South Australia >> Ph/Fax +61 8 8449 2871 >> mobile 0412 981204 >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> -----Original Message-----From: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of nandrewsSent: Monday, 17 March 2008 8:46 AMTo: >> 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in >> Australia.'Subject: [Aus-soaring] -ASG29 handicaps >> >> Hi Bernard, >> >> O.K seeing as it looks like the ASG29 walked all over > us >> then it should be handicapped accordingly, a walking all >> over us handicap must be at least 2%? >> >> Nigel >> >> >> >> >> o Nigel Andrews >> o >> - PO BOX 120, Boonah, Queensland Australia 4310( INT+(617) >> 546356704 +(617)54635695 * [EMAIL PROTECTED] z >> http://www.rf-developments.com >> >> >> RF Developments Pty Ltd >> >> >> >> "A Queensland Company devoted to Research and Development >> in aviation electronics" >> >> >> >> **************DISCLAIMER************ >> >> >> >> The information contained in the above e-mail message or >> messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential >> and may be legally privileged. 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