Mike (and any others interested)
As I sort of wrote below, the cost of the tailwheel conversion is only a
few thousand compared to the overall cost of upgrading a 150/152. Still
a few thousand could be worth saving, but it isn't a deal breaker.
Had a bit more of a look at lunch time in a few more aviation traders.
Looked at 23 in total, the average is a bit lower than with the first
look, but still about $45k. There are, of course some cheaper airframes,
but not so many as we might think (only 5 under $35k). And these are
often late 1960's vintage 150s. Maybe no one is advertising teh really
cheap ones.
So we could conceivably dig around and do a conversion somewhere between
Dave's 70k and my guess of 90k. However, what we would end up with is a
very old 150 (albeit with a new engine) . And that isn't much (any?)
better than a very old Pawnee (with a new engine). One of the drivers
for Richard (and others) thinking about "a new tug" is that one tug at
his club is pretty nearly worn out and will cost a significant
proportion of a new plane for soon to be due maintenance. Is it worth
sinking that much money into something as ancient as a Pawnee?
I take the point that over the life of the two aircraft comparison the
real costs of the 150 might be less than the Pawnee, but operating costs
are also driving the current thoughts to use MGs and ULs.
Are there no other options than bodging up 40+ year old aircraft (that's
a whole other discussion and could involve Blaniks!)?
The other side of the equation though, is that Richard asked the
original question because having a MG as a _second_ tug possibly gives
his club an aeroplane with greater utility. A tug MG is a tug _and_ a
MG, a GA tug (of any sort) is only a tug.
Regards
SWK
On 1/10/2010 1:18 PM, Mike Borgelt wrote:
Stephen,
Dave Donald is at Boonah and they converted one in the last few years.
You don't need the tailwheel conversion and both Boonah and Kingaroy's
C150s are still nosewheel types.
Performance of the 180HP C150 is impressive. I've watched a launch
behind a 235 Pawnee and the Kingaroy C150 with ballasted 15m gliders
with the second rolling as soon as the first lifted off. It isn't at
all certain that the 235 Pawnee is any better under those
circumstances than the C150.
The O-360 Lycoming used is essentially 2/3 of the O-540 in the Pawnee.
Only 4 cylinders to fuel and overhaul instead of 6 for around the same
towing perfomance.
Mike
At 12:59 PM 1/10/2010, you wrote:
I was a bit interested this morning too, so I did a quick hunt around
on the internet. I think Daves guess is a bit on the low side.
Airframe : going by costs of 150/152 from the latest aviation trader
(about 12 aircraft) costs range from 30k to 65k but typically fell in
the 45-55 range for aircraft with about 6000 hrs on the airframe.
(the $30k one was a real outlier and would be a bit of a clunker I
reckon, the 65k one "only" had 2000 hrs on the airframe, least used
by a long way).
So Airframe : average 48K, best 65k
Had a look at Lycomings 2010 price list for O-360s (there are 140+
types ! not counting IO, AEIO etc)
With exchange, a new O-360 $41k, rebuilt zero hours $29k. BUT up
front they say they are reluctant to exchange different types, so add
20% to either of these prices for a straight out purchase (though you
should still be able to sell the old engine locally and recoup
something).
Then looked for conversion prices. Found a site called Aeroprices
which quoted a tailwheel kit as US$2225 and an engine upsize kit as
US$5835-7622. HOWEVER (and this is the interesting bit) the STC for
both these kits was owned by "Aircraft Conversion Technologies" who
seem to have folded as a business in 1999. The STC ownership seems to
have then passed to "Del Air" who have little in the way of info on
the web (only reference by third parties). They could be gone too.
Who owns the STC? The upshot being the prices given must be pre 1999
prices so a conservative 50% inflation since then (I would bet closer
to 100%) gives:
Tailwheel kit $3300 (which seems neither here nor there in the
overall cost of the work)
Engine fit kit $9800
-------------------------
Finally if we were to buy a 150/152 on the Australian market and
upgrade it as above (not counting labour!) an "average/cheap"
conversion would be about $90k and a "top of the line" job would run
to about $120k.
I haven't allowed any cost for labour (and chasing around after who
owns the STC etc). I expect you would get some change (but not much)
out of $10k
After this expenditure you would still have a 30+ year old airframe.
Regards
SWK
On Fri 01/10/10 10:06 AM , Dave Donald [email protected] sent:
Why would you want a taildragger 150/152 (even though they exist)? If
you get a tricycle 150/152 that nearly every GA pilot trained on,
they are a ready source of tug pilots (when endorsed). And you don't
have all of the issues of ground handling that goes with a taildragger.
Airframe 20k
Engine 35k
Conversion 15K
= 70k
Pretty rough figures across a couple of years - the engine may be
more or less depending on condition. Also, most modded 150/152 have a
recurring problem shaking the rivets out of the tailplane skins/spar,
but with proper maintenance this risk is mitigated.
Dave
From: Colin Campbell
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Sent: Fri, 1 October, 2010 10:04:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] "Super Motor Falke" and towing
Can anyone supply information on current cost purchase and conversion
of C 152 to taildragger and 180 hp engine transplant and a LAME who
has done it before?
Colin C
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Mike Borgelt
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
wrote:
As proved at Kingaroy over the last 20 years.
Mike
At 09:41 PM 30/09/2010, you wrote:
One has to ask the question - why?
If cost is the answer then a 180HP Cessna 150/152 is the best
alternative.
Tom
--- On Wed, 29/9/10, Richard Skinner
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
From: Richard Skinner
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Subject: [Aus-soaring] "Super Motor Falke" and towing
To:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Received: Wednesday, 29 September, 2010, 4:57 PM
Does anybody out there have any information regarding the launching
of gliders by Motor Falke, or indeed, any other motor glider that may
be used to launch? I̢۪m not aware of it in Australia ia but I
understand that there may be some such happening in Europe? I am
aware of Ultra lights acting as tugs but I̢۪m speciecifically
interested in motor gliders.
Regards
Richard Skinner
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
08 8431 8249
0419 818 024
If you want to grow old as a pilot, you've got to know
when to push it, and when to back off. Chuck Yeager
_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list
[email protected]
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
