What about this baby. Even if it may not quite climb at 1,700fpm whilst towing, it would still make a great, retrieve anything anywhere, new tug
http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/lsa/sport/carbon-cub-ss On 01/10/2010, at 6:16 PM, stephenk <[email protected]> wrote: > Mike (and any others interested) > As I sort of wrote below, the cost of the tailwheel conversion is only a few > thousand compared to the overall cost of upgrading a 150/152. Still a few > thousand could be worth saving, but it isn't a deal breaker. > > Had a bit more of a look at lunch time in a few more aviation traders. Looked > at 23 in total, the average is a bit lower than with the first look, but > still about $45k. There are, of course some cheaper airframes, but not so > many as we might think (only 5 under $35k). And these are often late 1960's > vintage 150s. Maybe no one is advertising teh really cheap ones. > So we could conceivably dig around and do a conversion somewhere between > Dave's 70k and my guess of 90k. However, what we would end up with is a very > old 150 (albeit with a new engine) . And that isn't much (any?) better than a > very old Pawnee (with a new engine). One of the drivers for Richard (and > others) thinking about "a new tug" is that one tug at his club is pretty > nearly worn out and will cost a significant proportion of a new plane for > soon to be due maintenance. Is it worth sinking that much money into > something as ancient as a Pawnee? > I take the point that over the life of the two aircraft comparison the real > costs of the 150 might be less than the Pawnee, but operating costs are also > driving the current thoughts to use MGs and ULs. > Are there no other options than bodging up 40+ year old aircraft (that's a > whole other discussion and could involve Blaniks!)? > > The other side of the equation though, is that Richard asked the original > question because having a MG as a _second_ tug possibly gives his club an > aeroplane with greater utility. A tug MG is a tug _and_ a MG, a GA tug (of > any sort) is only a tug. > > Regards > SWK > > On 1/10/2010 1:18 PM, Mike Borgelt wrote: >> Stephen, >> >> Dave Donald is at Boonah and they converted one in the last few years. You >> don't need the tailwheel conversion and both Boonah and Kingaroy's C150s are >> still nosewheel types. >> >> Performance of the 180HP C150 is impressive. I've watched a launch behind a >> 235 Pawnee and the Kingaroy C150 with ballasted 15m gliders with the second >> rolling as soon as the first lifted off. It isn't at all certain that the >> 235 Pawnee is any better under those circumstances than the C150. >> >> The O-360 Lycoming used is essentially 2/3 of the O-540 in the Pawnee. Only >> 4 cylinders to fuel and overhaul instead of 6 for around the same towing >> perfomance. >> >> Mike >> >> >> At 12:59 PM 1/10/2010, you wrote: >> >>> I was a bit interested this morning too, so I did a quick hunt around on >>> the internet. I think Daves guess is a bit on the low side. >>> >>> Airframe : going by costs of 150/152 from the latest aviation trader (about >>> 12 aircraft) costs range from 30k to 65k but typically fell in the 45-55 >>> range for aircraft with about 6000 hrs on the airframe. (the $30k one was a >>> real outlier and would be a bit of a clunker I reckon, the 65k one "only" >>> had 2000 hrs on the airframe, least used by a long way). >>> >>> So Airframe : average 48K, best 65k >>> >>> >>> >>> Had a look at Lycomings 2010 price list for O-360s (there are 140+ types ! >>> not counting IO, AEIO etc) >>> >>> With exchange, a new O-360 $41k, rebuilt zero hours $29k. BUT up front they >>> say they are reluctant to exchange different types, so add 20% to either of >>> these prices for a straight out purchase (though you should still be able >>> to sell the old engine locally and recoup something). >>> >>> >>> >>> Then looked for conversion prices. Found a site called Aeroprices which >>> quoted a tailwheel kit as US$2225 and an engine upsize kit as US$5835-7622. >>> HOWEVER (and this is the interesting bit) the STC for both these kits was >>> owned by "Aircraft Conversion Technologies" who seem to have folded as a >>> business in 1999. The STC ownership seems to have then passed to "Del Air" >>> who have little in the way of info on the web (only reference by third >>> parties). They could be gone too. Who owns the STC? The upshot being the >>> prices given must be pre 1999 prices so a conservative 50% inflation since >>> then (I would bet closer to 100%) gives: >>> >>> Tailwheel kit $3300 (which seems neither here nor there in the overall cost >>> of the work) >>> >>> Engine fit kit $9800 >>> >>> ------------------------- >>> >>> Finally if we were to buy a 150/152 on the Australian market and upgrade it >>> as above (not counting labour!) an "average/cheap" conversion would be >>> about $90k and a "top of the line" job would run to about $120k. >>> >>> >>> >>> I haven't allowed any cost for labour (and chasing around after who owns >>> the STC etc). I expect you would get some change (but not much) out of $10k >>> >>> After this expenditure you would still have a 30+ year old airframe. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> SWK >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri 01/10/10 10:06 AM , Dave Donald [email protected] sent: >>> Why would you want a taildragger 150/152 (even though they exist)? If you >>> get a tricycle 150/152 that nearly every GA pilot trained on, they are a >>> ready source of tug pilots (when endorsed). And you don't have all of the >>> issues of ground handling that goes with a taildragger. >>> >>> Airframe 20k >>> Engine 35k >>> Conversion 15K >>> = 70k >>> >>> Pretty rough figures across a couple of years - the engine may be more or >>> less depending on condition. Also, most modded 150/152 have a recurring >>> problem shaking the rivets out of the tailplane skins/spar, but with proper >>> maintenance this risk is mitigated. >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> From: Colin Campbell >>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>> Sent: Fri, 1 October, 2010 10:04:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] "Super Motor Falke" and towing >>> >>> Can anyone supply information on current cost purchase and conversion of C >>> 152 to taildragger and 180 hp engine transplant and a LAME who has done it >>> before? >>> >>> Colin C >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Mike Borgelt >>> <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> As proved at Kingaroy over the last 20 years. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> At 09:41 PM 30/09/2010, you wrote: >>> One has to ask the question - why? >>> If cost is the answer then a 180HP Cessna 150/152 is the best alternative. >>> Tom >>> >>> --- On Wed, 29/9/10, Richard Skinner >>> <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> From: Richard Skinner >>> <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> >>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] "Super Motor Falke" and towing >>> To: >>> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>> Received: Wednesday, 29 September, 2010, 4:57 PM >>> >>> Does anybody out there have any information regarding the launching of >>> gliders by Motor Falke, or indeed, any other motor glider that may be used >>> to launch? I̢۪m not aware of it in Australia ia but I understand that >>> there may be some such happening in Europe? I am aware of Ultra lights >>> acting as tugs but I̢۪m speciecifically interested in motor gliders. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> >>> >>> Richard Skinner >>> >>> >>> >>> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> 08 8431 8249 >>> >>> 0419 818 024 >>> >>> >>> >>> If you want to grow old as a pilot, you've got to know >>> when to push it, and when to back off. Chuck Yeager >>> > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
