After my tailwheel conversion training many years ago I, was unlucky to fly a Cessna 150a with a Texas tail wheel conversion for some hours, The tail wheel conversions take a docile no brainer aero plane and turn it into a super bitchy and twitchy aero plane instantly !!!
My advice would be pimp out the engine bay stick a hook on it and leave the trainer wheel on the front. As has been said before anyone can fly a nose dragger. I was so put off this aeroplane i would prefer to fly a Auster J5G Autocar as a tug even those can be rather bitchy to land but at lease you can ride the bounces out as it tail,mains,tail,mains,tail,mains all the way down the strip!, because you has those 3 knots excess airspeed on touchdown. Regards Ben -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of stephenk Sent: Friday, 1 October 2010 4:16 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Towplanes Mike (and any others interested) As I sort of wrote below, the cost of the tailwheel conversion is only a few thousand compared to the overall cost of upgrading a 150/152. Still a few thousand could be worth saving, but it isn't a deal breaker. Had a bit more of a look at lunch time in a few more aviation traders. Looked at 23 in total, the average is a bit lower than with the first look, but still about $45k. There are, of course some cheaper airframes, but not so many as we might think (only 5 under $35k). And these are often late 1960's vintage 150s. Maybe no one is advertising teh really cheap ones. So we could conceivably dig around and do a conversion somewhere between Dave's 70k and my guess of 90k. However, what we would end up with is a very old 150 (albeit with a new engine) . And that isn't much (any?) better than a very old Pawnee (with a new engine). One of the drivers for Richard (and others) thinking about "a new tug" is that one tug at his club is pretty nearly worn out and will cost a significant proportion of a new plane for soon to be due maintenance. Is it worth sinking that much money into something as ancient as a Pawnee? I take the point that over the life of the two aircraft comparison the real costs of the 150 might be less than the Pawnee, but operating costs are also driving the current thoughts to use MGs and ULs. Are there no other options than bodging up 40+ year old aircraft (that's a whole other discussion and could involve Blaniks!)? The other side of the equation though, is that Richard asked the original question because having a MG as a _second_ tug possibly gives his club an aeroplane with greater utility. A tug MG is a tug _and_ a MG, a GA tug (of any sort) is only a tug. Regards SWK On 1/10/2010 1:18 PM, Mike Borgelt wrote: > Stephen, > > Dave Donald is at Boonah and they converted one in the last few years. > You don't need the tailwheel conversion and both Boonah and Kingaroy's > C150s are still nosewheel types. > > Performance of the 180HP C150 is impressive. I've watched a launch > behind a 235 Pawnee and the Kingaroy C150 with ballasted 15m gliders > with the second rolling as soon as the first lifted off. It isn't at > all certain that the 235 Pawnee is any better under those > circumstances than the C150. > > The O-360 Lycoming used is essentially 2/3 of the O-540 in the Pawnee. > Only 4 cylinders to fuel and overhaul instead of 6 for around the same > towing perfomance. > > Mike > > > At 12:59 PM 1/10/2010, you wrote: > >> I was a bit interested this morning too, so I did a quick hunt around >> on the internet. I think Daves guess is a bit on the low side. >> >> Airframe : going by costs of 150/152 from the latest aviation trader >> (about 12 aircraft) costs range from 30k to 65k but typically fell in >> the 45-55 range for aircraft with about 6000 hrs on the airframe. >> (the $30k one was a real outlier and would be a bit of a clunker I >> reckon, the 65k one "only" had 2000 hrs on the airframe, least used >> by a long way). >> >> So Airframe : average 48K, best 65k >> >> >> >> Had a look at Lycomings 2010 price list for O-360s (there are 140+ >> types ! not counting IO, AEIO etc) >> >> With exchange, a new O-360 $41k, rebuilt zero hours $29k. BUT up >> front they say they are reluctant to exchange different types, so add >> 20% to either of these prices for a straight out purchase (though you >> should still be able to sell the old engine locally and recoup >> something). >> >> >> >> Then looked for conversion prices. Found a site called Aeroprices >> which quoted a tailwheel kit as US$2225 and an engine upsize kit as >> US$5835-7622. HOWEVER (and this is the interesting bit) the STC for >> both these kits was owned by "Aircraft Conversion Technologies" who >> seem to have folded as a business in 1999. The STC ownership seems to >> have then passed to "Del Air" who have little in the way of info on >> the web (only reference by third parties). They could be gone too. >> Who owns the STC? The upshot being the prices given must be pre 1999 >> prices so a conservative 50% inflation since then (I would bet closer >> to 100%) gives: >> >> Tailwheel kit $3300 (which seems neither here nor there in the >> overall cost of the work) >> >> Engine fit kit $9800 >> >> ------------------------- >> >> Finally if we were to buy a 150/152 on the Australian market and >> upgrade it as above (not counting labour!) an "average/cheap" >> conversion would be about $90k and a "top of the line" job would run >> to about $120k. >> >> >> >> I haven't allowed any cost for labour (and chasing around after who >> owns the STC etc). I expect you would get some change (but not much) >> out of $10k >> >> After this expenditure you would still have a 30+ year old airframe. >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> SWK >> >> >> >> On Fri 01/10/10 10:06 AM , Dave Donald [email protected] sent: >> Why would you want a taildragger 150/152 (even though they exist)? If >> you get a tricycle 150/152 that nearly every GA pilot trained on, >> they are a ready source of tug pilots (when endorsed). And you don't >> have all of the issues of ground handling that goes with a taildragger. >> >> Airframe 20k >> Engine 35k >> Conversion 15K >> = 70k >> >> Pretty rough figures across a couple of years - the engine may be >> more or less depending on condition. Also, most modded 150/152 have a >> recurring problem shaking the rivets out of the tailplane skins/spar, >> but with proper maintenance this risk is mitigated. >> Dave >> >> >> From: Colin Campbell >> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >> Sent: Fri, 1 October, 2010 10:04:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] "Super Motor Falke" and towing >> >> Can anyone supply information on current cost purchase and conversion >> of C 152 to taildragger and 180 hp engine transplant and a LAME who >> has done it before? >> >> Colin C >> >> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Mike Borgelt >> <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> >> wrote: >> As proved at Kingaroy over the last 20 years. >> >> Mike >> >> >> At 09:41 PM 30/09/2010, you wrote: >> One has to ask the question - why? >> If cost is the answer then a 180HP Cessna 150/152 is the best >> alternative. >> Tom >> >> --- On Wed, 29/9/10, Richard Skinner >> <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >> >> From: Richard Skinner >> <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> >> Subject: [Aus-soaring] "Super Motor Falke" and towing >> To: >> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >> Received: Wednesday, 29 September, 2010, 4:57 PM >> >> Does anybody out there have any information regarding the launching >> of gliders by Motor Falke, or indeed, any other motor glider that may >> be used to launch? I̢۪m not aware of it in Australia ia but I >> understand that there may be some such happening in Europe? I am >> aware of Ultra lights acting as tugs but I̢۪m speciecifically >> interested in motor gliders. >> >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> >> >> Richard Skinner >> >> >> >> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >> >> >> >> 08 8431 8249 >> >> 0419 818 024 >> >> >> >> If you want to grow old as a pilot, you've got to know >> when to push it, and when to back off. Chuck Yeager >> _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
