Being the owner of a Foka5 and having rigged it many times it is actually very hard to rig it incorrectly Don't get me wrong,sometimes it can all be a bit of a pig to line up,but if the correct rigging tool is used you would need superhuman strength to pull the centre location tab through the steel plates allowing the top taper pin to come fully up whilst not engaging fully on the bottom taper pin. If you use some sort of mechanical advantage, ie shifter etc, then all bets are off,it may be possible. This is assuming expanding taper pins are all in good condition as they should be. Mine has been rigged wrong by others and when moving the wing up and down it was extremely obvious and very clunky. People seem to be scared of shaking a wing these days. The Cobra that crashed in the states was known about by a lot of owners of same aircraft and i received the info and duly noted it as something to be aware of. Since this accident i have made an inspection point where i can put my finger in and feel the bottom pin, more to keep others happy as i'm confident it cant be rigged wrong without extreme force or failing to even get top pin to the full engagement as was the case with mine. My bigger concern was i nearly forgot to screw the massive counterweight on the all flying tail one day ( ill admit i'm not perfect) and this was pointed out to me. That could have been interesting!! Still think two imperfect humans much better than one and whilst private owners may feel ok doing there own inspections we still need people prepared to sign off all our club machines in regard daily, rigging and form2 inspection without the constant litigation fear that is generated. At some stage all of us didnt have DI' tickets. Maybe we need to review our DI training and observation skills and not just push people through early solo as we cant be bothered doing it for them. Seen that before. Ive also seen many aircraft rigged wrong and some flown fortunately without incident.(mostly hotelliers) Hopefully some lessons can be learnt from these tragedies and the usefull exchange of information. cheers
> From: aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net > Subject: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 92, Issue 31 > To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:01:15 +0930 > > Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to > aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > aus-soaring-ow...@lists.internode.on.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Tug tow rope reeling in kit & operation (Michael Shirley) > 2. Re: Tug tow rope reeling in kit & operation > (sean.jorgensen...@activ8.net.au) > 3. Re: Foka incident (Pam Kurstjens) > 4. Re: Tug tow rope reeling in kit & operation (Mike Borgelt) > 5. Re: Foka incident (Geoff Vincent) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:05:06 +1000 > From: "Michael Shirley" <michael.shir...@bigpond.com> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Tug tow rope reeling in kit & operation > To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" > <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > Message-ID: <AC8224A0FFB24023B707A7386597FE37@MSBlaptop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Phil Benke at Caboolture has a Tost winch in his Super Dimona. > Regards > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net > [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Roger Druce > Sent: Monday, 16 May 2011 3:16 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Tug tow rope reeling in kit & operation > > I was wondering if there was any operator in Australia already employing > Tost tow rope reeling in kit with their tug aircraft so as to retract > the rope for descent & landing. > > How has the experience been both in regard to the equipment fitted to > the tug and also the operational benefits/problems? > > Reply to group or privately as you feel. > > Thanks > > Roger Druce > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:37:33 +1000 > From: sean.jorgensen...@activ8.net.au > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Tug tow rope reeling in kit & operation > To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > Message-ID: <20110516163733.9a49l69uogc8g...@webmail.activ8.net.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; > format="flowed" > > I have flown a DG1000 in Sweden behind a Super Cub that had a rope > reel, not sure if it was Tost. > > On the second flight the rope did no fully unwind, as a consequence I > was towed at approx 20m behind the aircraft, made for a very > interesting flight. I'm not sure if a novice would have coped, even > the instructor had a job staying in position. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net > > [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Roger Druce > > Sent: Monday, 16 May 2011 3:16 PM > > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Tug tow rope reeling in kit & operation > > > > I was wondering if there was any operator in Australia already employing > > Tost tow rope reeling in kit with their tug aircraft so as to retract > > the rope for descent & landing. > > > > How has the experience been both in regard to the equipment fitted to > > the tug and also the operational benefits/problems? > > > > Reply to group or privately as you feel. > > > > Thanks > > > > Roger Druce > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:56:30 +1000 > From: "Pam Kurstjens" <p...@kurstjens.com> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident > To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" > <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > Message-ID: <002d01cc1396$680fa660$382ef320$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Anyone who countersigns somebody else's rigging is nuts. Unless they have > observed and checked it every inch of the way, fully understand the glider > type they are signing off for, AND are willing to accept liability. > > Why do we expose our fellow glider pilots to this enormous burden of > responsibility? > > Pam > > > > > > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net > [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Matthew > Gage > Sent: Monday, 16 May 2011 2:01 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident > > > > Rolf, in this I agree with Mike - there is no way that a duplicate control > check (or even DI) would have found the problem. Sadly, such a person would > have spent months in court defending themselves, costing them many thousands > with no prospect of any insurance helping them. > > > > In practice, the UK do have a 2nd inspection - just with no signature. The > accident report even says this was done ! > > > > Is it the check that improves safety or the signature ???? > > > > > > On 16/05/2011, at 13:35 , rolf a. buelter wrote: > > > > > > Yea, way more important to cover your ass against litigation then document a > second chance to get it right! > > Allays your miserable Mr. Buelter > > > Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 10:54:25 +1000 > > To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > From: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident > > > > > > Lots of lessons in the Foka crash. > > > > One big one is how fortunate it was the BGA and there was no second > > sigmnature on the DI after rigging. > > > > Mike > > Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since > 1978 > > phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 > > fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 > > cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 > > > > email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > > website: www.borgeltinstruments.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20110516/090b8a58/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:16:24 +1000 > From: Mike Borgelt <mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Tug tow rope reeling in kit & operation > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > Message-ID: <7bca94$6vk...@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > At 04:37 PM 16/05/2011, you wrote: > >I have flown a DG1000 in Sweden behind a Super Cub that had a rope > >reel, not sure if it was Tost. > > > >On the second flight the rope did no fully unwind, as a consequence I > >was towed at approx 20m behind the aircraft, made for a very > >interesting flight. I'm not sure if a novice would have coped, even > >the instructor had a job staying in position. > > > Was it not obvious that the rope was jammed ? > > Why did you not release? > > Mike > Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 > phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 > fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 > cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 > > email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > website: www.borgeltinstruments.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:31:04 +1000 > From: Geoff Vincent <geoff.vinc...@optusnet.com.au> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident > To: p...@kurstjens.com, "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in > Australia." <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>, "'Discussion of > issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" > <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > Message-ID: <201105160731.p4g7v0fv011...@mail08.syd.optusnet.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" > > Pam, > > I totally support your sentiments. Additionally, on several > occasions I have deliberately left a rigging item "undone" in full > view and on three occasions the error was not discovered by the > second "inspector" who I might add were all pilots with many years > experience. They all would have signed off the DI if I hadn't then > intervened. From my viewpoint there is no substitute for doing the > inspection properly yourself and taking full and sole responsibility for that. > > Regards, > > Geoff V > > At 04:56 PM 16/05/2011, Pam Kurstjens wrote: > >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01CC13EA.39BBB660" > >Content-Language: en-au > > > >Anyone who countersigns somebody else's rigging is nuts. Unless > >they have observed and checked it every inch of the way, fully > >understand the glider type they are signing off for, AND are willing > >to accept liability. > >Why do we expose our fellow glider pilots to this enormous burden of > >responsibility? > >Pam > > > > > >From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net > >[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Matthew Gage > >Sent: Monday, 16 May 2011 2:01 PM > >To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > >Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident > > > >Rolf, in this I agree with Mike - there is no way that a duplicate > >control check (or even DI) would have found the problem. Sadly, such > >a person would have spent months in court defending themselves, > >costing them many thousands with no prospect of any insurance helping them. > > > >In practice, the UK do have a 2nd inspection - just with no > >signature. The accident report even says this was done ! > > > >Is it the check that improves safety or the signature ???? > > > > > >On 16/05/2011, at 13:35 , rolf a. buelter wrote: > > > > > >Yea, way more important to cover your ass against litigation then > >document a second chance to get it right! > > > >Allays your miserable Mr. Buelter > > > > > Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 10:54:25 +1000 > > > To: > > <mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > > From: > > <mailto:mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident > > > > > > > > > Lots of lessons in the Foka crash. > > > > > > One big one is how fortunate it was the BGA and there was no second > > > sigmnature on the DI after rigging. > > > > > > Mike > > > Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring > > instruments since 1978 > > > phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 > > > fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 > > > cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 > > > > > > email: > > <mailto:mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > > > website: <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com>www.borgeltinstruments.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > > > > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > > > > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >_______________________________________________ > >Aus-soaring mailing list > ><mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > >To check or change subscription details, visit: > ><http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Aus-soaring mailing list > >Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > >To check or change subscription details, visit: > >http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20110516/a2870151/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 92, Issue 31 > *******************************************
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