Hi Stevo, We used the old AG year books and listed all the records done in wooden aircraft and drew our line there. The records tumbled when the Boomerang/Austria/Foka were replaced with Diamants, Libelles , Pheobus and Cirrus. They weren't just a step up, they were a leap.
On some exceptional days there were some exceptional flights done. Geoff's in the Boomerang and Brian Mclaren's 800 odd Km in the Standard Austria were just outstanding. What I reckon is that if they knew what we know now, they may have gone further. In the last 2 years there has been flights of over 1000 k in a K6E (USA) and more recently the 600 k in a K2 two seater (Europe). A K2 not even a K7, probably a 24:1 glide angle. I can't endorse your comment that these gliders need to be retired. I argue it's not really about the glider, it's more about the pilot extending themselves. I won't even say that anyone can jump in a current machine and just chalk off their silver C. Doesn't matter what you fly, it's still a goal to achieve in a flying machine without an engine. Your comments about glue and structural failure needs to be toned down a bit. Even you know about delamination in glass structures so don't just point the finger at wood. Most glues have demonstrated longevity, particularly Casien, which would have to be one of the most careful glues to maintain has shown excellent strength. Yes there have been examples of failure but generally there are mittigated reasons for that result and if detected early it can be very easily repaired and in most cases returned to service. As you know I grew up gliding, these pilots, and I knew a lot of them, were my idols. Jinksy, Rowe, Howland, Blackwell, Reid, Iggulden, Apsland, Renner and Dick Johnson in the US were just supermen to a junior pilot. But just as impressionable on me were the other pilots that just enjoyed their flying, seeing every flight as an experience. Cheers Patch ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, 18 July, 2012 11:03:24 PM (GMT+1000) Auto-Detected Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial Hi Patch, Please enlighten me. What are the achieved benchmarks - both official and unofficial - for a Boomerang/Super Arrow, that you know about? I seem to recall that a couple of SA pilots were doing flights of 600k plus, many years ago, including at least one flight across Spencer Gulf. Do you have an AG reference for that flight? Ballsy stuff maybe, but I suggest it might be hard to beat Percy Wills' flight, and story on how he almost(?) accidentally glid across the English Channel. I endorse your comments in Para 2. It seems to me that despite my earlier comment (which I stand by), about the best place for most 1-26 gliders is in a museum, over the years the owners (as a collective), of these ships have tested all the limits of what is possible with this type, (and the type did evolve, as you well know, so there are many model variations), under (almost?), every possible situation. It is extremely unlikely that any current record for the type can be improved upon. In my opinion another good reason to put 99% of these ships in museums, before structural/glue or other failure kills somebody. Having made a point or two about the 1-26 as a type, let me make one more about the skill of the best of the 1-26 pilots. It can be summed up in one word -Awesome! Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruth Patching" <[email protected]> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial > Hey WPP, > > What you are proposing is very similar to what some of us in the vintage > movement have been doing for some time now, unofficially. > > What we try to do with our gliders is to fly them to their fullest > potential. We do that by looking at the records of the era and > endeavouring to better those results in our flying. Given the improvements > in instrumentation, our knowledge of weather and more importantly the > improvements in flying skills it is a personal acheivement when it all > comes together. > > I am sure the Boomerang is capable of much longer flights and believe they > would have, if the rapid performance gains with GRP gliders hadn't > happened so quickly and replacing those gliders within such a short period > of time. > > Patch > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adam Woolley" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, 18 July, 2012 12:50:14 PM (GMT+1000) Auto-Detected > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial > > G'day All, > > I've been keen to set up some unofficial club class records since getting > my Cirrus. Hope you see the concept/idea as I've seen it. The reason > behind it, > > As per '3.2' - All in good fun, to give those who can't go for official > records due to financial reasons (eg, not being able to obtain a Discus 2, > to go for a STD class record) or not being their preferred class. > > In 1999, Tom Claffey & others experienced some amazing weather conditions > in AUS. I think that the weather cycle goes in 7yr increments. Now > approaching 14yrs later, I think we could be in for a good season - cross > your fingers, I & many others would love a regular great season for a > change!!! > > All comments & potential additions on the below welcome. > > > SeeYou, > WPP > www.facebook.com/W3Racing > > > > Unofficial Australian Club Club Class Records - Rules V1.0 > Concept by Adam Woolley > Written by Adam Woolley > > > 1 - Philosophy: To provide a friendly and honest unofficial record > list/rules for Australian pilots, whom race/fly in Australian airspace, in > the gliders on the Australian Club Class Handicap list provided on the GFA > website. > > 2 - RULES: Use the Australian Junior Record Rules (found on > www.joeyglide.com.au & www.ajgc.org.au websites) if you want to go > 'official official', as kindly put together by Andrew Maddocks. The below > are amendments & simple reminders, in no particular order & are generally > based on the KISS principle, with safety in mind! > > If you don't want to read the rules, & if your an honest person - the > below will suffice. > > > 2.1 - Entries Open: 18 JUL 2012. > > 2.2 - Eligable Gliders: Club Class Gliders, as found on the current years > GFA Club Class Handicap list. > > 2.3 - Handicaps: the use of the current GFA Club Class Handicap list will > be used for the flight (date) submitted. > > 2.4 - Reference Weight: the use of the current reference weight as > provided by the GFA club class handicap list for the (date) submitted. > > 2.5 - After Market Modifications: No penalty will be given for the > addition of winglets, wing fillets or extractor vents. > > 2.6 - Handicap Adjustments: 0.005 disadvantage per part there of 12kg over > REFERENCE WEIGHT. No performance advantage given for gliders that fly > below REFERENCE WEIGHT. > > 2.7 - Start Rule: 1km radius over pre-declared waypoint. > > 2.8 - Turnpoint(s): 500m radius. > > 2.9 - Finish: 3km radius from the pre-declared waypoint. > > 2.10 - Record submission: E-Mail your details appropriate for the flight > (Start & Finish Point, Turnpoints (if not a free distance or height gain) > inc waypoint details, glider type, approximate weight (or accurate if > known)), & *.igc file to, [email protected] within 48hrs of 'end of > roll'. > > 2.11 - Start/Finish Heights: You must finish at the predetermined finish > point, within a 1000m of your start height & predetermined start point. > For 'free distance' one way flights, you must start (predetermined point) > below 1000m AGL & land safely at any point. > > 2.12 - Records: Each record will stay firm until beaten by the current > years GFA handicap for the club class glider used. ie, won't be changed > each season if the glider handicap or reference weights change. > > 2.13 - Declarations: A flight must be declared before going through the > start circle, unless it's a Free Distance flight. > > > 3 - GENERAL > > 3.1 - Remember, unofficial. If you cheat intentially or not being honest, > you're only ripping your fellow mates off. > > 3.2 - All in good fun, to give those who can't go for official records due > to financial reasons (eg, not being able to obtain a Discus 2, to go for a > STD class record) or not being their preferred class. > > 3.3 - If the GFA thinks its a good idea, more than happy for the rules to > be re-written officially. Though I would like to think that they'll accept > the unofficial records, even of they have an unofficial column until the > record is beaten officially - to reward the efforts that we've previously > gone too! > > 3.4 - I know there's lots of holes in the above. Use your noggin for what > you think is right and fair! > > 3.5 - It's just a game, have fun! > > > 4 - Records obtainable > > 4.1 - An excel spreadsheet available on request, until I find a place to > upload it to the web. > > 4.2 - Free Distance > Free Distance > Free Out & Retun Distance > Free Three Turnpoint Distance > > 4.3 - Distance to Goal > Straight Distance to Goal > Three Turnpoint Distance > Out & Return Distance > FAI Triangle Distance > > 4.4 - Speed > Speed Out & Return: 100km > Speed Out & Return: 300km > Speed Out & Return: 500km > Speed Out & Return: 750km > Speed Out & Return: 1000km > Speed FAI Triangle: 100km > Speed FAI Triangle: 300km > Speed FAI Triangle: 500km > Speed FAI Triangle: 750km > Speed FAI Triangle: 1000km > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5138 - Release Date: 07/17/12 > _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
