Hi Case - you have a case there.. :p BUT: let's just imagine a world without lawyers and accountants. (just for a moment - I promise it won't be scary)
- raspberry pie ($30) + tv dongle ($30) + free code will display transponder equipped aircraft (mode-s) on my $200 xc-soar screen. Voila. No big bucks required. Those non-tso'd bits will do the same for ozrunways and avplan. This system already runs rings around powerFlarm and does what I want. - if I run my transponder and feed it non-tso'd gps data from my Garmin or pda or Nano3 I am visible to other TCAS (tso'd raspberry pies) and my own non tso'd system and other non-tso'd systems. (remember I said no lawyers for a little while..) Now, lets make those lawyer visible again. There is nothing to my knowledge that would stop us (sailplanes) from operating in class G with TSO'D mode-s transponders and raspberry pies with tv dongles running xc-soar. No job for a lawyer. The grey area starts when we start feeding non-tso'd gps data into our mode-s transponders. So, give me TABS for under $1500 and I will fit it and I will be able to see mode-s traffic such as Flying doctors AND I will be legally visible to them. I will keep the 'ol flarm in there as well until all gliders run TABS. I don't want a powerFlarm because it will not be able to do what I would like it to do. With TABS we can bypass the monopoly intention that Flarm is aiming for. Erich On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 2:06 PM, Casey Jay Lewis <[email protected]> wrote: > I certainly share your desire to see those traffic types with greater > resolution! > > Unfortunately, TABS is not designed to do that. It's a way of making 'us' > visible to 'them'. As we pretty much all carry one or more accurate but > not certified GPS sources already, it's purpose (FAA TSO-C199) is to make > gliders and other exempted aircraft such as balloons visible, making use of > these non-TSO'd GPS's for collision avoidance purposes. It's basically a > cost effective way to turn us into non-certified ADS-B out aircraft. > > ATC still won't use the ADS-B data due to signal integrity & fault > monitoring reasons but it permits our current GPS sources (PowerFLARM, LX, > CN etc) to be used for collision avoidance. > > In my case, I have an ADS-B Out capable, Mode S XPDR but no legal position > information to feed it. If TABS is adopted, it would let me output my > PF/LX GPS position to my XPDR, making me visible to systems such as TCAS in > powered aircraft. But....it still doesn't add any visibility of powered > aircraft to us. If they aren't ADS-B Out equipped, the best we can get is > a range ring on PowerFLARM. Of course, this assumes you haven't spent 10's > of thousands on TCAS for your sailplane. Who would?!? I guess we can only > hope that AsA/CASA return to mandated ADS-B out for all powered aircraft, > as the USA has done with a 2020 deadline. > > Case > > iPad transmission > > > On 21 May 2015, at 11:19, [email protected] > wrote: > > > > Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to > > [email protected] > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > [email protected] > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > [email protected] > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 (Casey Jay Lewis) > > 2. Re: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 (Erich Wittstock) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:51:09 +0800 > > From: Casey Jay Lewis <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 > > To: "[email protected]" > > <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > Take that shotgun off your hip Erich, before you have someone's eye out! > :P > > > > It seems you're confusing ADS-B Out with PowerFLARM and its > capabilities/requirements. > > > > You've also claimed 'range ring' only for ADS-B equipped traffic and > that's just not true. > > > > With a PowerFLARM, you will see relative distance and altitude > information for: > > - PowerFLARM traffic > > - OzFLARM traffic > > - ADS-B equipped traffic > > You don't need any other equipment / 'smoke generators' > > > > You will see reduced information for transponder only traffic, down to a > mere 'range ring' for Mode A/C transponders. > > > > It's unfortunate that OzFLARM et al is no longer supported but they've > clearly taken the decision to allow gradual obsolescence to force upgrades > to the latest standard, with all the associated benefits that entails. > Make no mistake, all the legacy equipment will keep working just as it > always has. > > > > PowerFLARM USA/AUS are compatible. PowerFLARM EUR is not. Not only are > the frequencies different (EUR freq prohibited in the USA) but the FCC also > mandate the connector type (reverse SMA). No conspiracy theory there. > > > > Finally, Flarm encryption came about due to a genuine privacy issue. > Other entities were decrypting Flarm data to display personal information > in contravention of EU privacy legislation. I couldn't give two hoots if > someone tracks my gliders position on OGN, FlightAware, FlightRadar24 etc > but others may and can try suing the bejesus out of PowerFLARM for letting > it happen. A detailed article in Gliding International covered this. > > > > If I recall correctly, Flarm have undertaken to share their collision > avoidance technology with other manufacturers in the interests of safety, > once the privacy issue is addressed. So long as they keep their word on > this, I have no problem with the path they've taken. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Casey > > PowerFLARM user since 2012 > > > > iPad transmission > > > >> On 21 May 2015, at 10:07, [email protected] > wrote: > >> > >> Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to > >> [email protected] > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> [email protected] > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> [email protected] > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. flarmin' hell (Erich Wittstock) > >> 2. Re: flarmin' hell (Grietje Wansink) > >> 3. Re: flarmin' hell (Mike Borgelt) > >> 4. Re: flarmin' hell (Erich Wittstock) > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:04:03 +1000 > >> From: Erich Wittstock <[email protected]> > >> Subject: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell > >> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > >> <[email protected]> > >> Message-ID: > >> <caph3ineq_4-2zbo0zwqmrd-cxyz04jd9cudysza1pf1ods9...@mail.gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >> > >> > https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-against-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol > >> > >> Please correct me if I am wrong: > >> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. > >> ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly > working > >> flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! > >> > >> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people own > >> gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. > >> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not cheap > >> instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy a > powerFlarm. > >> ..I would sign if I were you. > >> Erich > >> > >> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit like > a > >> joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no indication of > direction. > >> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150521/01668b35/attachment.html > > > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 2 > >> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:12:35 +1000 > >> From: Grietje Wansink <[email protected]> > >> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell > >> To: [email protected] > >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > >> > >> As far as I have understood and experienced: > >> > >> Powerflarm dedicated to Australia will work in Australia (we have two > >> gliders to confirm) > >> but when dedicated to Europe will NOT work in Australia (we can confirm > >> that also :-( ). > >> > >> LX integrated flarm will automatically change to Australian frequency > >> when they find themselves in Australia. > >> We also have experienced this. > >> Encryption will not change this as it is automatically. > >> > >> Also I thought GFA is looking into this matter as it will have > >> consequences for the WGC Junior competition in Narromine and the WGC in > >> Benalla. > >> > >> Grietje > >> > >>> On 21/05/2015 10:04 am, Erich Wittstock wrote: > >>> > https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-against-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol > >>> > >>> Please correct me if I am wrong: > >>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. > >>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly > >>> working flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! > >>> > >>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people > >>> own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. > >>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not > >>> cheap instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy a > >>> powerFlarm. > >>> ..I would sign if I were you. > >>> Erich > >>> > >>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit > >>> like a joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no indication > >>> of direction. > >>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150521/eb6c53ac/attachment.html > > > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 3 > >> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 11:23:01 +1000 > >> From: Mike Borgelt <[email protected]> > >> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell > >> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > >> <[email protected]> > >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > >> > >> Erich, > >> > >> ADSB monitoring should give direction just like > >> Flarm. You may be seeing Mode S returns with no > >> ADSB position/speed/direction information in the > >> message. Or Mode C returns which won't give > >> direction either. Both should give relative altitudes though. > >> > >> OK what is TABS? > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> At 10:04 AM 21/05/2015, you wrote: > >>> < > https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-against-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol > > > https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-against-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol > >>> > >>> Please correct me if I am wrong: > >>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. > >>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to > >>> replace your perfectly working flarm with a powerflarm - that is > nearly $2500! > >>> > >>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be > >>> affected. Some people own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation > Zeus.. > >>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your > >>> very nice but not cheap instrument will be > >>> rendered useless and you will have to buy a powerFlarm. > >>> ..I would sign if I were you. > >>> Erich > >>> > >>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic > >>> monitoring is a bit like a joke. Yes, there is a > >>> warning of "incoming". But no indication of direction. > >>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. > >>> ? > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >> > >> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of > >> quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 > >> www.borgeltinstruments.com > >> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > >> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > >> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150521/c05f252a/attachment.html > > > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 4 > >> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 12:07:28 +1000 > >> From: Erich Wittstock <[email protected]> > >> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell > >> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > >> <[email protected]> > >> Message-ID: > >> <caph3ing2vymp3vza0lrqzlmupxm+gjkjdmqfea9cu2s-ls0...@mail.gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >> > >> Hi Mike (et al), > >> yes, ADSB will give direction and altitude in a TCAS system. > >> But if you are "just" a glider pilot and you purchase a powerflarm - it > >> still is not the best solution. Just more expensive. > >> If you have a PowerFlarm and hook transponder data into it: you do not > get > >> a direction warning indication, just "incoming". Only Flarm traffic is > >> shown comprehensively, even with climb rate etc... > >> The direction / altitude data from a transponder only appears after you > >> throw a few thousand dollars more at your glider instrument panel and > get > >> additional boxes containing magic smoke. > >> > >> TABS: "Traffic Advisory Broadcast System". > >>> From my understanding: it is backwards compatible: It is another (new) > box > >> containing magic smoke and is able to mix Flarm and transponder smoke. > It > >> will cost less than buying a transponder and powerflarm. > >> "TSO-C199" is the data-sheet for the new smoke. > >> > http://www.icao.int/APAC/Meetings/2015%20ADSBSITF14/SP08b_FAA%20TABS%20briefing.pdf > >> > >> I am looking after my original OZFlarm and wait for TABS. > >> However, encrypting the Flarm protocol would mean I would have to fork > out > >> $2500 for a powerflarm just because the Flarm makers are greedy and want > >> all other manufacturers out of their business. > >> My existing OZFlarm would be useless even as a paperweight since it is > too > >> light (that's why it is great for a glider). > >> > >> The good 'ol flarm can be configured via software (by the user) to > operate > >> at different frequencies - to work in different countries. Later Flarm > >> firmware versions switch frequencies automatically and allow you to > take a > >> flarm from Europe to the US and Australia without any problems. > >> Powerflarms have to be configured by the manufacturer to change > frequencies > >> - and the Flarmin Swiss Company will charge a few toblerones for that! > Why? > >> because they can! > >> ...make sure you select the "US/Australia" powerflarm from the millenair > >> website, if you really have to buy a powerflarm and can't wait for TABS. > >> > >> Third party manufacturers such as LX Nav / LX Navigation utilise the > good > >> 'ol flarm in their devices - that's why they switch automatically > according > >> where you are. However, I can foresee that being stopped by the "flarm > data > >> encryption". You will need two powerflarms: One for Europe and the other > >> for US/Australia. > >> > >> A bit like no longer being able to take your phone overseas and just > using > >> it with a sim card from that country.. > >> > >> Lucky for us users: there are enough brainy people out there that are > >> capable of designing something that is far superior to flarm. > >> Erich > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Mike Borgelt < > >> [email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> Erich, > >>> > >>> ADSB monitoring should give direction just like Flarm. You may be > seeing > >>> Mode S returns with no ADSB position/speed/direction information in the > >>> message. Or Mode C returns which won't give direction either. Both > should > >>> give relative altitudes though. > >>> > >>> OK what is TABS? > >>> > >>> Mike > >>> > >>> > >>> At 10:04 AM 21/05/2015, you wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-against-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol > >>> > >>> Please correct me if I am wrong: > >>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. > >>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly > working > >>> flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! > >>> > >>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people own > >>> gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. > >>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not cheap > >>> instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy a > powerFlarm. > >>> ..I would sign if I were you. > >>> Erich > >>> > >>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit > like a > >>> joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no indication of > direction. > >>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. > >>> ? > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >>> > >>> *Borgelt Instruments* - > >>> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * > >>> www.borgeltinstruments.com > >>> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > >>> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > >>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150521/2dc522d2/attachment.html > > > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Aus-soaring mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >> > >> End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 > >> ******************************************** > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 13:14:34 +1000 > > From: Erich Wittstock <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 > > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > > <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: > > <caph3infsfuvpcpgv8efhqxyfcm0fqmx+a1yk3nqxuhy9hvr...@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > So far it's a hit by a "spud gun". You don't even wanna know that the > shot > > gun impact would look like.. ;-) > > > > I am not worried about other gliders - they will be flarm equipped. I do > > worry about GA traffic. Because any "near-miss" will compromise our > freedom > > of (gliding) ability. > > PowerFlarm will tell me: there is a transponder signal in a "near enough > is > > good enough" manner (no punt intended). > > > > OK, taken from the powerflarm manual: > > *Mode C signals only carry altitude information, but no identification. > To > > avoid that an the aircraft?s own Mode C transponder is constantly > displayed > > as a very close target, PowerFLARM identifies the strongest Mode C signal > > and suppresses it.* (no surprise here - that's why mode-s was > implemented) > > > > > > > > > > > > *ADS-B alertsADS-B OUT broadcasts have originally been designed for > ground- > > based surveillance and collision avoidance by Air Traffic Control. The > use > > of ADS-B for airborne collision alerts is often limited by factors such > > as:? Absence of horizontal and/or vertical speed data? Absence of GPS > > altitude data? Erroneous transmission of position and/or velocity data? > > Time lag in position data* > > ...bla bla bla... and then this: > > *However, ADS-B does not provide sufficiently precise data to warn about > > glider traffic with its frequent altitude changes and steep turns.* > > *To ensure best alert quality, PowerFLARM therefore does not use ADS-B > data > > to compute alerts for glider targets. Instead, it will exclusively rely > on > > the target's much more precise FLARM data.* > > > > I want to be able to see the Flying Doctor and the Mining-fly-in-fly-out > > plane just like a flarm target. And that is not the case with a > powerFlarm > > unless these planes are flarm equipped. > > All you get is: "incoming" - no direction. > > > > PowerFlarm does not display transponder traffic sufficiently. > > > > I am waiting for TABS and am happy to pay $1500 for something that > actually > > works. > > Erich > > > > > > > >> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 12:51 PM, Casey Jay Lewis <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Take that shotgun off your hip Erich, before you have someone's eye > out! :P > >> > >> It seems you're confusing ADS-B Out with PowerFLARM and its > >> capabilities/requirements. > >> > >> You've also claimed 'range ring' only for ADS-B equipped traffic and > >> that's just not true. > >> > >> With a PowerFLARM, you will see relative distance and altitude > information > >> for: > >> - PowerFLARM traffic > >> - OzFLARM traffic > >> - ADS-B equipped traffic > >> You don't need any other equipment / 'smoke generators' > >> > >> You will see reduced information for transponder only traffic, down to a > >> mere 'range ring' for Mode A/C transponders. > >> > >> It's unfortunate that OzFLARM et al is no longer supported but they've > >> clearly taken the decision to allow gradual obsolescence to force > upgrades > >> to the latest standard, with all the associated benefits that entails. > >> Make no mistake, all the legacy equipment will keep working just as it > >> always has. > >> > >> PowerFLARM USA/AUS are compatible. PowerFLARM EUR is not. Not only are > the > >> frequencies different (EUR freq prohibited in the USA) but the FCC also > >> mandate the connector type (reverse SMA). No conspiracy theory there. > >> > >> Finally, Flarm encryption came about due to a genuine privacy issue. > >> Other entities were decrypting Flarm data to display personal > information > >> in contravention of EU privacy legislation. I couldn't give two hoots if > >> someone tracks my gliders position on OGN, FlightAware, FlightRadar24 > etc > >> but others may and can try suing the bejesus out of PowerFLARM for > letting > >> it happen. A detailed article in Gliding International covered this. > >> > >> If I recall correctly, Flarm have undertaken to share their collision > >> avoidance technology with other manufacturers in the interests of > safety, > >> once the privacy issue is addressed. So long as they keep their word on > >> this, I have no problem with the path they've taken. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> Casey > >> PowerFLARM user since 2012 > >> > >> iPad transmission > >> > >>>> On 21 May 2015, at 10:07, [email protected] > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> You can reach the person managing the list at > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >>> than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." > >>> > >>> > >>> Today's Topics: > >>> > >>> 1. flarmin' hell (Erich Wittstock) > >>> 2. Re: flarmin' hell (Grietje Wansink) > >>> 3. Re: flarmin' hell (Mike Borgelt) > >>> 4. Re: flarmin' hell (Erich Wittstock) > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Message: 1 > >>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:04:03 +1000 > >>> From: Erich Wittstock <[email protected]> > >>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell > >>> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> Message-ID: > >>> <caph3ineq_4-2zbo0zwqmrd-cxyz04jd9cudysza1pf1ods9...@mail.gmail.com> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >> > https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-against-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol > >>> > >>> Please correct me if I am wrong: > >>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. > >>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly > >> working > >>> flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! > >>> > >>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people own > >>> gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. > >>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not cheap > >>> instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy a > >> powerFlarm. > >>> ..I would sign if I were you. > >>> Erich > >>> > >>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit > like a > >>> joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no indication of > >> direction. > >>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: < > >> > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150521/01668b35/attachment.html > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Message: 2 > >>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:12:35 +1000 > >>> From: Grietje Wansink <[email protected]> > >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > >>> > >>> As far as I have understood and experienced: > >>> > >>> Powerflarm dedicated to Australia will work in Australia (we have two > >>> gliders to confirm) > >>> but when dedicated to Europe will NOT work in Australia (we can confirm > >>> that also :-( ). > >>> > >>> LX integrated flarm will automatically change to Australian frequency > >>> when they find themselves in Australia. > >>> We also have experienced this. > >>> Encryption will not change this as it is automatically. > >>> > >>> Also I thought GFA is looking into this matter as it will have > >>> consequences for the WGC Junior competition in Narromine and the WGC in > >>> Benalla. > >>> > >>> Grietje > >>> > >>>> On 21/05/2015 10:04 am, Erich Wittstock wrote: > >> > https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-against-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol > >>>> > >>>> Please correct me if I am wrong: > >>>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. > >>>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly > >>>> working flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! > >>>> > >>>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people > >>>> own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. > >>>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not > >>>> cheap instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy a > >>>> powerFlarm. > >>>> ..I would sign if I were you. > >>>> Erich > >>>> > >>>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit > >>>> like a joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no indication > >>>> of direction. > >>>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >>> > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: < > >> > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150521/eb6c53ac/attachment.html > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Message: 3 > >>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 11:23:01 +1000 > >>> From: Mike Borgelt <[email protected]> > >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell > >>> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > >>> > >>> Erich, > >>> > >>> ADSB monitoring should give direction just like > >>> Flarm. You may be seeing Mode S returns with no > >>> ADSB position/speed/direction information in the > >>> message. Or Mode C returns which won't give > >>> direction either. Both should give relative altitudes though. > >>> > >>> OK what is TABS? > >>> > >>> Mike > >>> > >>> At 10:04 AM 21/05/2015, you wrote: > >>>> < > >> > https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-against-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol > >> > https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-against-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol > >>>> > >>>> Please correct me if I am wrong: > >>>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. > >>>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to > >>>> replace your perfectly working flarm with a powerflarm - that is > nearly > >> $2500! > >>>> > >>>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be > >>>> affected. Some people own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation > >> Zeus.. > >>>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your > >>>> very nice but not cheap instrument will be > >>>> rendered useless and you will have to buy a powerFlarm. > >>>> ..I would sign if I were you. > >>>> Erich > >>>> > >>>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic > >>>> monitoring is a bit like a joke. Yes, there is a > >>>> warning of "incoming". But no indication of direction. > >>>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. > >>>> ? > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >>> > >>> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of > >>> quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 > >>> www.borgeltinstruments.com > >>> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > >>> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > >>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: < > >> > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150521/c05f252a/attachment.html > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Message: 4 > >>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 12:07:28 +1000 > >>> From: Erich Wittstock <[email protected]> > >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell > >>> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> Message-ID: > >>> <caph3ing2vymp3vza0lrqzlmupxm+gjkjdmqfea9cu2s-ls0...@mail.gmail.com> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >>> > >>> Hi Mike (et al), > >>> yes, ADSB will give direction and altitude in a TCAS system. > >>> But if you are "just" a glider pilot and you purchase a powerflarm - it > >>> still is not the best solution. Just more expensive. > >>> If you have a PowerFlarm and hook transponder data into it: you do not > >> get > >>> a direction warning indication, just "incoming". Only Flarm traffic is > >>> shown comprehensively, even with climb rate etc... > >>> The direction / altitude data from a transponder only appears after you > >>> throw a few thousand dollars more at your glider instrument panel and > get > >>> additional boxes containing magic smoke. > >>> > >>> TABS: "Traffic Advisory Broadcast System". > >>>> From my understanding: it is backwards compatible: It is another (new) > >> box > >>> containing magic smoke and is able to mix Flarm and transponder smoke. > It > >>> will cost less than buying a transponder and powerflarm. > >>> "TSO-C199" is the data-sheet for the new smoke. > >> > http://www.icao.int/APAC/Meetings/2015%20ADSBSITF14/SP08b_FAA%20TABS%20briefing.pdf > >>> > >>> I am looking after my original OZFlarm and wait for TABS. > >>> However, encrypting the Flarm protocol would mean I would have to fork > >> out > >>> $2500 for a powerflarm just because the Flarm makers are greedy and > want > >>> all other manufacturers out of their business. > >>> My existing OZFlarm would be useless even as a paperweight since it is > >> too > >>> light (that's why it is great for a glider). > >>> > >>> The good 'ol flarm can be configured via software (by the user) to > >> operate > >>> at different frequencies - to work in different countries. Later Flarm > >>> firmware versions switch frequencies automatically and allow you to > take > >> a > >>> flarm from Europe to the US and Australia without any problems. > >>> Powerflarms have to be configured by the manufacturer to change > >> frequencies > >>> - and the Flarmin Swiss Company will charge a few toblerones for that! > >> Why? > >>> because they can! > >>> ...make sure you select the "US/Australia" powerflarm from the > millenair > >>> website, if you really have to buy a powerflarm and can't wait for > TABS. > >>> > >>> Third party manufacturers such as LX Nav / LX Navigation utilise the > good > >>> 'ol flarm in their devices - that's why they switch automatically > >> according > >>> where you are. However, I can foresee that being stopped by the "flarm > >> data > >>> encryption". You will need two powerflarms: One for Europe and the > other > >>> for US/Australia. > >>> > >>> A bit like no longer being able to take your phone overseas and just > >> using > >>> it with a sim card from that country.. > >>> > >>> Lucky for us users: there are enough brainy people out there that are > >>> capable of designing something that is far superior to flarm. > >>> Erich > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Mike Borgelt < > >>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Erich, > >>>> > >>>> ADSB monitoring should give direction just like Flarm. You may be > seeing > >>>> Mode S returns with no ADSB position/speed/direction information in > the > >>>> message. Or Mode C returns which won't give direction either. Both > >> should > >>>> give relative altitudes though. > >>>> > >>>> OK what is TABS? > >>>> > >>>> Mike > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> At 10:04 AM 21/05/2015, you wrote: > >> > https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-against-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol > >>>> > >>>> Please correct me if I am wrong: > >>>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. > >>>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly > >> working > >>>> flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! > >>>> > >>>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people > own > >>>> gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. > >>>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not > cheap > >>>> instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy a > >> powerFlarm. > >>>> ..I would sign if I were you. > >>>> Erich > >>>> > >>>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit > like > >> a > >>>> joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no indication of > >> direction. > >>>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. > >>>> ? > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >>>> > >>>> *Borgelt Instruments* - > >>>> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * > >>>> www.borgeltinstruments.com > >>>> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > >>>> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > >>>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: < > >> > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150521/2dc522d2/attachment.html > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >>> > >>> End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 > >>> ******************************************** > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Aus-soaring mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150521/3324870f/attachment.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 20 > > ******************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >
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