I hope my info is wrong but I got told it’s all agreed on following amendments 
today and tomorrow’s vote will see it passed.

Michelle Sullivan
http://www.mhix.org/
Sent from my iPad

> On 04 Dec 2018, at 20:40, Tim Raphael <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Solid interview on ABC News Paul! 
> 
> Unfortunately it’s very much a case of, let’s see what gets passed at this 
> stage. 
> 
> - Tim 
> 
>> On 4 Dec 2018, at 20:34, Robert Hudson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> #facepalm
>> 
>>> On Tue, 4 Dec. 2018, 8:23 pm Christopher Hawker <[email protected] 
>>> wrote:
>>> https://apple.news/AOnumlAB9THOmg_8mnMS9DA
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 4 Dec 2018, at 2:30 pm, Paul Wilkins <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> APH calendar shows the Bill scheduled for debate tomorrow.
>>>> 
>>>> Last media release from PJCIS 28 Nov, they would hear evidence from 
>>>> security agencies as to the urgency of the Bill.
>>>> 
>>>> Push meets shove?
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards
>>>> 
>>>> Paul Wilkins
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 at 11:16, Paul Wilkins <[email protected]> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> This morning I don't know what to think.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Somehow a confidential submission, by the AFP no less, to the PJCIS has 
>>>>> leaked.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So the government needs to pass new powers so police can investigate 
>>>>> serious crime, including I suppose where it's the government that leaks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Or on the other hand, if the government can't maintain the security of 
>>>>> their own papers, how can the public and industry ever rely on government 
>>>>> for the security of their business and personal data? 
>>>>> 
>>>>> By the way, where you see Liberals arguing police need the same powers as 
>>>>> ASIO and AFP, this actually is not correct. The intelligence services 
>>>>> need Exceptional Access powers. I see no reason for the extent of 
>>>>> judicial writ for the police to go anything beyond Legal Intercept. Which 
>>>>> requires a different set of powers, different technical implementations, 
>>>>> and diminished consequences for data security, and different rules of 
>>>>> evidence.
>>>>> 
>>>>> How you avoid a dozen different agencies all kicking in the doors on data 
>>>>> centres without stepping on each others toes is an exercise for the 
>>>>> reader.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>> 
>>>>> Paul Wilkins
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 at 15:31, Mark Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 at 11:17, Paul Wilkins <[email protected]> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Well obviously taking the time to read and consider the public and 
>>>>>> > industry submissions is preferable to pronouncements of "extensive" 
>>>>>> > consultation, then trying to second guess what's on the 5 Eyes' 
>>>>>> > "Letter to Santa" so we can push the Bill through before Christmas.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > There does need to be a settlement between the State's need to enforce 
>>>>>> > the rule of law, and citizen rights of privacy and private property. 
>>>>>> > The problem is if you say it can't be done at all, governments will 
>>>>>> > simply proceed without your input.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > So I think EA is going to happen, regardless.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Until the legislation is passed, EA hasn't happened.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > So we need a debate how that can be accommodated, minimising the 
>>>>>> > adverse impacts, while maximising the benefits for national security, 
>>>>>> > and coming to some kind of settlement with Law Enforcement that 
>>>>>> > preserves citizens rights. Of course, this isn't possible under the 
>>>>>> > current Dep't Home Affairs' timeline, though if Labor stalls the Bill, 
>>>>>> > that will be some welcome respite.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nobody is obligated to spend any time on something the government
>>>>>> proposes unless it becomes law.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you want to work on the idea of EA it is up to you, however this is
>>>>>> not a EA development forum, so I think any ideas you have regarding
>>>>>> the mechanics are off-topic for this list.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > While we're at it, suggestions that EA could be achieved by pushing 
>>>>>> > the onus for EA authentication to service provider mechanisms, is 
>>>>>> > deeply flawed, but the security experts pushing this will get the ear 
>>>>>> > of governments if no one else has anything constructive to say.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Kind regards
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Paul Wilkins
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 at 14:38, Mark Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 at 13:17, Paul Wilkins <[email protected]> 
>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > “We have said we are willing to pass a bill by Thursday, which 
>>>>>> >> > gives appropriate powers, these powers, to national security 
>>>>>> >> > agencies with appropriate oversight to target criminals and people 
>>>>>> >> > who are being investigated for child sex crimes."
>>>>>> >> > Penny Wong
>>>>>> >> > So that's settled. Without Labor's support, the Bill can't proceed. 
>>>>>> >> > The Liberal's are too invested to compromise, and they need this in 
>>>>>> >> > play only for the politics. So 50/50 the Bill is sunk, or we get 
>>>>>> >> > ASIO/AFP powers, a sunset clause, and a considered bill somewhere 
>>>>>> >> > down the track.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Not properly considered, because the politicians aren't listening to
>>>>>> >> the information security technology experts about how feasible it is
>>>>>> >> to build this securely.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Legislating the impossible doesn't make it possible.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> > Kind regards
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > Paul Wilkins
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 at 13:00, Paul Wilkins 
>>>>>> >> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> Scott Morrison 'blew up' bipartisan compromise on encryption, says 
>>>>>> >> >> Labor
>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> Government and opposition locked in battle over laws to allow 
>>>>>> >> >> security and intelligence agencies access to encrypted 
>>>>>> >> >> telecommunications
>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at 11:39, I <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>> >> >>> Paul Wilkins wrote:
>>>>>> >> >>> Parliamentary Calendar is showing the Bill listed for debate Wed 
>>>>>> >> >>> 5th December. Not sure by what process it gets listed.
>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>> >> >>> Perhaps the appointment for debate is the equivalent of a mention 
>>>>>> >> >>> in the court process and it will be returned to the committee.
>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>> >> >>> Rob
>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>> >> >>>
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