I  checked the changes and I think they addressed the comments.

Regards,
Quynh.

On Fri, Sep 19, 2025 at 2:07 PM Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer) <[email protected]>
wrote:

> I believe I have addressed your comments.
>
> Quynh, do you want to take a look over it?
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Sarah Tarrant <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 18, 2025 2:57 PM
> *To:* Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer) <[email protected]>; [email protected] <
> [email protected]>
> *Cc:* Quynh Dang <[email protected]>; [email protected] <
> [email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* [Document Shepherd] Re: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9858
> <draft-fluhrer-lms-more-parm-sets-19> for your review
>
> Hi Scott and Stanislav,
>
> Scott - I believe this would be a question for the Document Shepherd.
>
> Stanislav - Could you better direct Scott on this?
>
> Thank you,
> Sarah Tarrant
> RFC Production Center
>
> > On Sep 17, 2025, at 4:35 PM, Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer) <
> [email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Quick question: RFC 5743 asks:
> >
> > The breadth of review the document has received must also be
> >      noted.  For example, was this document read by all the active
> >      research group members, only three people, or folks who are not
> >      "in" the RG but are expert in the area?
> >
> >
> > Actually, I'm not sure of the breadth.  I do know some people reviewed
> it (and we did get a few comments), but I would be quite surprised if the
> majority of the research group did.  How do I note that?
> > From: Sarah Tarrant <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2025 8:59 AM
> > To: Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer) <[email protected]>
> > Cc: [email protected] <[email protected]>;
> [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>;
> [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <
> [email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9858
> <draft-fluhrer-lms-more-parm-sets-19> for your review
> >
> > Hi Scott,
> >
> > Regarding:
> > > What version of the draft should we be basing our changes on?  Is it
> the -19 version in data tracker?  Or, is it some version that the RFC
> editor has modified?
> >
> >
> > I'm not sure what you mean by "basing our changes on".
> draft-fluhrer-lms-more-parm-sets-19 has now entered AUTH48 as RFC-to-be
> 9858. And we await answers to the questions below.
> >
> > Here are those links again:
> >
> > The files are available here:
> >   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9858.xml
> >   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9858.html
> >   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9858.pdf
> >   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9858.txt
> >
> > Diff file of the text:
> >   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9858-diff.html
> >   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9858-rfcdiff.html (side by side)
> >
> > Alt-diff of the text (allows you to more easily view changes
> > where text has been deleted or moved):
> >   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9858-alt-diff.html
> >
> > Diff of the XML:
> >   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9858-xmldiff1.html
> >
> > Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Sarah Tarrant
> > RFC Production Center
> >
> > > On Sep 17, 2025, at 7:28 AM, Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer) <sfluhrer=
> [email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > What version of the draft should we be basing our changes on?  Is it
> the -19 version in data tracker?  Or, is it some version that the RFC
> editor has modified?
> > >
> > > From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2025 10:05 PM
> > > To: Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer) <[email protected]>; [email protected]
> <[email protected]>
> > > Cc: [email protected] <[email protected]>;
> [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>;
> [email protected] <[email protected]>
> > > Subject: Re: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9858
> <draft-fluhrer-lms-more-parm-sets-19> for your review
> > >
> > > Authors,
> > >
> > > While reviewing this document during AUTH48, please resolve (as
> necessary) the following questions, which are also in the source file.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1) <!-- [rfced] Please insert any keywords (beyond those that appear in
> > > the title) for use on https://www.rfc-editor.org/search.
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 2) <!-- [rfced] Please ensure that the guidelines listed in Section
> 2.1 of
> > > RFC 5743 have been adhered to in this document.  See
> > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5743.html#section-2.1.
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 3) <!-- [rfced] Please clarify "by defining parameter sets by including
> > > additional hash functions" in the first sentence below. Also, would it
> be
> > > helpful to update "These include hash functions that result" in the
> > > second sentence in one of the following ways? Or is the current
> correct?
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >    This note extends HSS/LMS (RFC 8554) by defining parameter sets by
> > >    including additional hash functions.  These include hash functions
> > >    that result in signatures with significantly smaller size than the
> > >    signatures using the current parameter sets, and should have
> > >    sufficient security.
> > >
> > > Perhaps:
> > >    This document extends HSS/LMS (RFC 8554) by defining additional
> parameter sets
> > >    and hash functions. The hash functions
> > >    result in signatures with significantly smaller sizes than the
> > >    signatures using the current parameter sets, and they should have
> > >    sufficient security.
> > >
> > > Or:
> > >    This document extends HSS/LMS (RFC 8554) by defining additional
> parameter sets
> > >    and hash functions that
> > >    result in signatures with significantly smaller sizes than the
> > >    signatures using the current parameter sets and they should have
> > >    sufficient security.
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 4) <!-- [rfced] Please clarify "a set of parameter sets to".
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >    What this draft
> > >    explores is a set of parameter sets to the HSS/LMS (RFC8554)
> stateful
> > >    hash based signature method that reduce the size of the signature
> > >    significantly or rely on a hash function other than SHA-256 (to
> > >    increase cryptodiversity).
> > >
> > > Perhaps:
> > >    This document
> > >    explores parameter sets for the HSS/LMS stateful
> > >    hash-based signature method [RFC8554] that reduce the size of the
> signature
> > >    significantly or rely on a hash function other than SHA-256 (to
> > >    increase cryptodiversity).
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 5) <!-- [rfced] May we update "that will be used in Section 3 and
> Section 4" as
> > > follows?
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >    This section defines three hash functions that will be used in
> > >    Section 3 and Section 4.
> > >
> > > Perhaps:
> > >    This section defines three hash functions that are used with the
> > >    parameter sets defined in Sections 3 and 4.
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 6) <!-- [rfced] We recommend updating these sentences as follows.
> Please review
> > > and let us know your thoughts.
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >    Here is a table with the Leighton-Micali One-Time Signature (LM-OTS)
> > >    parameters defined that use the above hashes:
> > >    ...
> > >    Here is a table with the Leighton-Micali (LM) parameters defined
> that
> > >    use SHA-256/192, SHAKE256/256 and SHAKE256/192 hash functions:
> > >    ...
> > >    Here is a table that gives the space used by both the 256 bit
> > >    parameter sets and the 192 bit parameter sets, for a range of
> > >    plausible Winternitz parameters and tree heights:
> > >
> > > Perhaps:
> > >    The table below defines the Leighton-Micali One-Time Signature (LM-
> > >    OTS) parameters that use the hashes defined in Section 2:
> > >    ...
> > >    The table below defines the Leighton-Micali (LM) parameters that use
> > >    the SHA-256/192, SHAKE256/256, and SHAKE256/192 hash functions:
> > >    ...
> > >    The table below gives the space used by both the 256-bit
> > >    and 192-bit parameter sets for a range of
> > >    plausible Winternitz parameters and tree heights:
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 7) <!-- [rfced] How may we revise the parenthetical here to improve
> clarity?
> > >
> > > Current:
> > >    For signature length, both effects are relevant (because the
> > >    signature consists of a series of hashes and each hash is shorter,
> > >    and because we need fewer Winternitz chains, we need fewer hashes in
> > >    each LM-OTS signature).
> > >
> > > Perhaps:
> > >    For signature length, both effects are relevant. The first is
> relevant because
> > >    the signature consists of a series of hashes and each hash is
> shorter. The second
> > >    is relevant because when we need fewer Winternitz chains, we need
> fewer hashes in
> > >    each LM-OTS signature.
> > >
> > > Or:
> > >    For signature length, both effects are relevant (i.e., because the
> > >    signature consists of a series of hashes and each hash is shorter
> > >    and because we need fewer Winternitz chains and thus fewer hashes in
> > >    each LM-OTS signature).
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 8) <!-- [rfced] Will readers understand what "reason 2 above" refers
> to?
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >    For SHA-256/192, there is a smaller (circa 20%) reduction in the
> > >    amount of computation required for a signature operation with a 192
> > >    bit hash (for reason 2 listed above).
> > >
> > > Perhaps:
> > >    For SHA-256/192, there is a smaller (circa 20%) reduction in the
> > >    amount of computation required for a signature operation with a
> > >    192-bit hash (for effect 2 listed above).
> > >
> > > Or:
> > >    For SHA-256/192, there is a smaller (circa 20%) reduction in the
> > >    amount of computation required for a signature operation with a
> > >    192-bit hash (for reason 2 listed in Section 6).
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 9) <!-- [rfced] Would updating "will need to be performed, performing
> the
> > > computations on" to "will need to be performed on" make this sentence
> > > easier to follow?
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >    For example, if the adversary is
> > >    willing to wait for 2**64 times the time taken by a hash computation
> > >    (which is over 50 years if a Quantum Computer can compute a hash in
> > >    0.1 nsec), this implies that a total of 2**(192-64) = 2**128 hash
> > >    computations will need to be performed, performing the computations
> > >    on 2**64 (18 quintillion) separate Quantum Computers, each of which
> > >    computes 2**64 hash evaluations.
> > >
> > > Perhaps:
> > >    For example, if the adversary is
> > >    willing to wait for 2**64 times the time taken by a hash computation
> > >    (which is over 50 years if a quantum computer can compute a hash in
> > >    0.1 nanoseconds), this implies that a total of 2**(192-64) = 2**128
> hash
> > >    computations will need to be performed
> > >    on 2**64 (18 quintillion) separate quantum computers, each of which
> > >    computes 2**64 hash evaluations.
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 10) <!-- [rfced] Should "standard SHA256" here include a hyphen (i.e.,
> "standard
> > > SHA-256")?
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >    In addition, to perform a length extension attack on SHA-256/192,
> the
> > >    attacker has to guess the 64 omitted bits (because the attack
> > >    requires all 256 bits of the hash value); hence that is even less of
> > >    a concern than it is for the standard SHA256.
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 11) <!-- [rfced] The text after the semicolon is a fragment. How may
> we update to
> > > connect this text to the rest of the sentence?
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >    However, if the application needs to
> > >    assume that it is infeasible for the signer to generate such a
> > >    signature, then the security strength assumptions are reduced; 128
> > >    bits for SHAKE256/256 and 96 bits for SHA-256/192 and SHAKE256/192.
> > >
> > > Perhaps:
> > >    However, if the application needs to
> > >    assume that it is infeasible for the signer to generate such a
> > >    signature, then the security strength assumptions are reduced to 128
> > >    bits for SHAKE256/256 and 96 bits for SHA-256/192 and SHAKE256/192.
> > >
> > > Or:
> > >    However, if the application needs to
> > >    assume that it is infeasible for the signer to generate such a
> > >    signature, then the security strength assumptions are reduced (128
> > >    bits for SHAKE256/256 and 96 bits for SHA-256/192 and SHAKE256/192).
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 12) <!-- [rfced] Questions about IANA values
> > >
> > > a) Should the values in the "id" column in Tables 1 and 2 be updated to
> > > exactly match the values in the "Numeric Identifier" column of the
> "LM-OTS
> > > Signatures" and "Leighton-Micali Signatures (LMS)" registries in
> regard to
> > > capitalization and leading zeroes? We understand that these hex values
> are the
> > > same.
> > >
> > > Examples:
> > >
> > > "id" column of Table 1:
> > >   0x0005
> > >   0x000a
> > >
> > > "Numeric Identifier" column of "LM-OTS Signatures" registry:
> > >   0x00000005
> > >   0x0000000A
> > >
> > > Links to registries:
> > >
> https://www.iana.org/assignments/leighton-micali-signatures/leighton-micali-signatures.xhtml#leighton-micali-signatures-1
> > >
> > >
> https://www.iana.org/assignments/leighton-micali-signatures/leighton-micali-signatures.xhtml#lm-ots-signatures
> > >
> > >
> > > b) Some of these values also appear in Appendix A but without the "0x"
> > > prefix. Please confirm that this is correct.
> > >
> > > Example:
> > >
> > > Appendix A:
> > >   0000000a
> > >
> > > "Numeric Identifier" column of "LM-OTS Signatures" registry:
> > >   0x0000000A
> > >
> > >
> > > c) In Appendix A, we believe the names below should be updated as
> follows to
> > > align with the parameter set names in Tables 1 and 2 (and in the IANA
> > > registries). Please confirm. Note that there are two instances of of
> each in
> > > Appendix A.
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >  LMS type    00000014                         # LMS_SHAKE256_N24_H5
> > >  LMOTS type  00000010                         # LMOTS_SHAKE256_N24_W8
> > >  LMS type    0000000f                         # LMS_SHAKE256_N32_H5
> > >  LMOTS type  0000000c                         # LMOTS_SHAKE256_N32_W8
> > >
> > > Perhaps:
> > >  LMS type    00000014                         # LMS_SHAKE_M24_H5
> > >  LMOTS type  00000010                         # LMOTS_SHAKE_N24_W8
> > >  LMS type    0000000f                         # LMS_SHAKE_M32_H5
> > >  LMOTS type  0000000c                         # LMOTS_SHAKE_N32_W8
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 13) <!-- [rfced] The following reference entries appeared in the
> Normative
> > > References section but were not cited in the text. We have removed
> them;
> > > however, if they should be cited in the text, please let us know where
> to
> > > include them.
> > >
> > > [RFC2119]
> > > [RFC3979]
> > > [RFC4879]
> > > [RFC5226]
> > > [RFC8174]
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 14) <!-- [rfced] FYI - For [Grover96], we found the following URL from
> the ACM
> > > Digital Library:
> > >
> > > https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/237814.237866
> > >
> > > We have updated this reference to match the information provided at
> this
> > > URL. Please let us know if you have any objections.
> > >
> > > Current:
> > >    [Grover96] Grover, L., "A fast quantum mechanical algorithm for
> > >               database search", Proceedings of the twenty-eighth annual
> > >               ACM symposium on Theory of Computing (STOC '96), pp.
> > >               212-219, DOI 10.1145/237814.237866, July 1996,
> > >               <https://doi.org/10.1145/237814.237866>.
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 15) <!-- [rfced] Appendix A
> > >
> > > a) Appendix A includes four test cases, not three as indicated in the
> sentence
> > > below. We updated as follows for accuracy. Please let us know any
> objections.
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >    This section provides three test cases that can be used to verify or
> > >    debug an implementation, one for each hash function.
> > >
> > > Updated:
> > >    This appendix provides four test cases that can be used to verify or
> > >    debug an implementation.
> > >
> > >
> > > b) FYI - Note that we used figure titles to label the test cases for
> clarity,
> > > even though we see that figure titles were not used in a similar
> appendix in
> > > RFC 8554. Let us know any concerns.
> > >
> > >
> > > c) For the ease of the reader, we suggest adding subsections to
> Appendix A
> > > for each test case. Let us know your thoughts.
> > >
> > > Current:
> > >    Appendix A.  Test Cases
> > >
> > > Perhaps:
> > >    Appendix A.  Test Cases
> > >      A.1.  Test Case 1
> > >      A.2.  Test Case 2
> > >      A.3.  Test Case 3
> > >      A.4.  Test Case 4
> > >
> > > If we update like this, we could also remove "Test Case 1", "Test Case
> 2",
> > > etc. from the figure titles if you wish.
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 16) <!-- [rfced] In Section 2.1, we updated <artwork> to <sourcecode
> > > type="test-vectors">. Please let us know any concerns.
> > >
> > > Also, please review each artwork element in Appendix A. Should these
> be tagged
> > > as sourcecode or another element?
> > >
> > > If these are updated to sourcecode, please let us know how/if to set
> the type
> > > attribute. The current list of preferred values for the "type"
> > > attribute for <sourcecode> is available here:
> > >
> > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/rpc/wiki/doku.php?id=sourcecode-types
> > >
> > > If this list does not contain an applicable type, then feel free to
> suggest a
> > > new one.  Also, it is acceptable to leave the "type" attribute not set.
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 17) <!-- [rfced] Does "**" indicate superscript? Some examples:
> > >
> > > 2**192
> > > 2**96
> > > 2**t
> > > 2**(192-t)
> > > 2**(192/2)
> > >
> > > If so, would you like to make use of <sup> for superscript in this
> document?
> > > As an example, we updated "2**192" in the fourth paragraph of Section
> 8 to use
> > > <sup>. If this is acceptable, we will update the other instances; if
> you
> > > choose not to use <sup>, we will revert this change.
> > >
> > > Note: In the HTML and PDF, it appears as superscript.  In the text
> output,
> > > <sup> generates a^b instead of a**b, which was used in the original
> document.
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 18) <!-- [rfced] We updated "1k - 4kbytes" and "0.1 nsec" as follows
> for
> > > clarity. Let us know any concerns.
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >    One disadvantage is that the signatures they produce tend
> > >    to be somewhat large (possibly 1k - 4kbytes).
> > >    ...
> > >    (which is over 50 years if a Quantum Computer can compute a hash in
> > >    0.1 nsec)
> > >
> > > Updated:
> > >    One disadvantage is that the signatures they produce tend
> > >    to be somewhat large (possibly 1-4 kilobytes).
> > >    ...
> > >    (which is over 50 years, if a quantum computer can compute a hash in
> > >    0.1 nanoseconds)
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 19) <!-- [rfced] Terminology
> > >
> > > a) The first two sentences below use "LM-OTS" and "LM", while the third
> > > sentence uses "LMOTS" and "LMS" when discussing Tables 1 and 2. Please
> review
> > > and let us know if updates are needed for consistency.
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >    Here is a table with the Leighton-Micali One-Time Signature (LM-OTS)
> > >    parameters defined that use the above hashes:
> > >    ...
> > >    Here is a table with the Leighton-Micali (LM) parameters defined
> that
> > >    use SHA-256/192, SHAKE256/256 SHAKE256/256, and SHAKE256/192 hash
> functions:
> > >    ...
> > >    To use the additional hash functions within HSS, one would use the
> > >    appropriate LMOTS id from Table 1 and the appropriate LMS id from
> > >    Table 2, ...
> > >
> > >
> > > b) Please also review the following (which appear in Appendix A) and
> let us know
> > > if any updates are needed to align with the choice for the question
> above.
> > >
> > > LMS type
> > > LMOTS type
> > > LMOTS signature
> > >
> > >
> > > c) Please review the the following and let us know if any updates are
> > > needed. These are used in RFC 8445, but we note that there is
> redundancy with
> > > "signature" when expanded (i.e., "Leighton-Micali Signature signature"
> and
> > > "Hierarchical Signature System signature").
> > >
> > >   LMS signature
> > >   HSS signature
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 20) <!-- [rfced] Abbreviations:
> > >
> > > a) FYI - We have added expansions for the following abbreviation(s)
> > > per Section 3.6 of RFC 7322 ("RFC Style Guide"). Please review each
> > > expansion in the document carefully to ensure correctness.
> > >
> > > extendable-output function (XOF)
> > >
> > >
> > > b) How may we expand "IV" in the following? As "Initialization
> > > Vector (IV)"? This the only instance of IV in the document.
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >    We use the same IV as the untruncated SHA-256, rather than defining
> a
> > >    distinct one, so that we can use a standard SHA-256 hash
> > >    implementation without modification.
> > >
> > > Perhaps:
> > >    We use the same initialization vector as the untruncated SHA-256,
> > >    rather than defining a
> > >    distinct one, so that we can use a standard SHA-256 hash
> > >    implementation without modification.
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > 21) <!-- [rfced] Please review the "Inclusive Language" portion of the
> online
> > > Style Guide <
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/styleguide/part2/#inclusive_language>
> > > and let us know if any changes are needed.  Updates of this nature
> typically
> > > result in more precise language, which is helpful for readers.
> > >
> > > Note that our script did not flag any words in particular, but this
> should
> > > still be reviewed as a best practice.
> > > -->
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > Sarah Tarrant and Rebecca VanRheenen
> > > RFC Production Center
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sep 15, 2025, at 6:59 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> > >
> > > *****IMPORTANT*****
> > >
> > > Updated 2025/09/15
> > >
> > > RFC Author(s):
> > > --------------
> > >
> > > Instructions for Completing AUTH48
> > >
> > > Your document has now entered AUTH48.  Once it has been reviewed and
> > > approved by you and all coauthors, it will be published as an RFC.
> > > If an author is no longer available, there are several remedies
> > > available as listed in the FAQ (https://www.rfc-editor.org/faq/).
> > >
> > > You and you coauthors are responsible for engaging other parties
> > > (e.g., Contributors or Working Group) as necessary before providing
> > > your approval.
> > >
> > > Planning your review
> > > ---------------------
> > >
> > > Please review the following aspects of your document:
> > >
> > > *  RFC Editor questions
> > >
> > >   Please review and resolve any questions raised by the RFC Editor
> > >   that have been included in the XML file as comments marked as
> > >   follows:
> > >
> > >   <!-- [rfced] ... -->
> > >
> > >   These questions will also be sent in a subsequent email.
> > >
> > > *  Changes submitted by coauthors
> > >
> > >   Please ensure that you review any changes submitted by your
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> > > Files
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> > > Tracking progress
> > > -----------------
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> > >
> > > Please let us know if you have any questions.
> > >
> > > Thank you for your cooperation,
> > >
> > > RFC Editor
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------
> > > RFC9858 (draft-fluhrer-lms-more-parm-sets-19)
> > >
> > > Title            : Additional Parameter sets for HSS/LMS Hash-Based
> Signatures
> > > Author(s)        : S. Fluhrer, Q. Dang
> > > WG Chair(s)      :
> > > Area Director(s) :
>
>
>
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