Hi Sandy, I agree with Adam’s proposed changes.
Best, Ben ________________________________ From: Adam R <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2025 4:05 pm To: Ben S3 <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9882 <draft-ietf-lamps-cms-ml-dsa-07> for your review Hi Sandy, 1. The authors (Ben included) have had a discussion on this and we think we can just remove "traditional" entirely; describing the algorithm as a "post-quantum" algorithm as we have elsewhere in the document conveys the intended meaning. OLD: The Module-Lattice-Based Digital Signature Algorithm (ML-DSA) is a digital signature algorithm standardised by the US National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) as part of their post-quantum cryptography standardisation process. It is intended to be secure against both "traditional" cryptographic attacks, as well as attacks utilising a quantum computer. NEW: The Module-Lattice-Based Digital Signature Algorithm (ML-DSA) is a post-quantum digital signature algorithm standardised by the US National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) as part of their post-quantum cryptography standardisation process. 2. We've discussed with the authors of dilithium-certs and Deb, and are content that the meaning of the text is the same in both instances and hence no wording changes are required. 3. I also think this is fine. 4. Base64-encoded examples seem somewhat rare in CMS RFCs, I had a quick look at recent examples and I only found RFC 9690. That RFC tags its examples as artwork. The examples in question aren't X.509, so I would leave them as-is or tag as artwork. If Russ has an opinion (as an author of RFC 9690 and many more CMS RFCs), I'd go with that. 5. I agree with Ben. I agree with Ben's typo correction for Section 6, and suggest an additional change to give that table a title: OLD: <table anchor="oid"> <thead> <tr> <th>Decimal</th> <th>Description</th> <th>Refernece</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr> <td>83</td> <td>id-mod-ml-dsa-2024</td> <td>RFC 9882</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> NEW: <table anchor="oid"> <name>Object Identifier Assignments</name> <thead> <tr> <th>Decimal</th> <th>Description</th> <th>Reference</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr> <td>83</td> <td>id-mod-ml-dsa-2024</td> <td>RFC 9882</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> I would suggest one other grammatical change in Section 5: OLD: If ML-DSA signing is implemented in a hardware device such as the hardware security module (HSM) or portable cryptographic token, implementers might want to avoid sending the full content to the device for performance reasons. NEW: If ML-DSA signing is implemented in a hardware device such as a hardware security module (HSM) or a portable cryptographic token, implementers might want to avoid sending the full content to the device for performance reasons. Thanks, Adam ________________________________ From: Ben S3 <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2025 08:15 To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Adam R <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: RE: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9882 <draft-ietf-lamps-cms-ml-dsa-07> for your review Thanks Sandy! To the specific points below: 1) Use of "Traditional" in our draft is intended to mirror the use of traditional in RFC 9794. Traditional cryptographic algorithms are meant to be secure against traditional cryptographic attacks, whereas PQ algorithms are secure against both traditional and quantum attacks. Whilst not explicitly defined, the terminology is precise enough that it is fully understood in the post-quantum context. I'd therefore leave it as it is. 2) I agree they should be the same, but I think I prefer our wording. I'll reach out to the authors of dilithium-certs. 3) Fine by me. 4) These are not X.509 artefacts, so I propose leaving the type attribute unset. 5) I've reviewed the guidance - I believe our document has no inclusivity concerns. Additional points: Section 6: OLD: +=========+====================+===========+ | Decimal | Description | Refernece | +=========+====================+===========+ | 83 | id-mod-ml-dsa-2024 | RFC 9882 | +---------+--------------------+-----------+ NEW: +=========+====================+===========+ | Decimal | Description | Reference | +=========+====================+===========+ | 83 | id-mod-ml-dsa-2024 | RFC 9882 | +---------+--------------------+-----------+ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: 10 October 2025 00:56 To: Ben S3 <[email protected]>; Adam R <[email protected]>; [email protected] Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9882 <draft-ietf-lamps-cms-ml-dsa-07> for your review Authors, While reviewing this document during AUTH48, please resolve (as necessary) the following questions, which are also in the source file. 1) <!-- [rfced] We note that "traditional" is in quotes, but please consider whether it should be updated for clarity. The term is ambiguous; "tradition" is a subjective term because it is not the same for everyone. Original: It is intended to be secure against both "traditional" cryptographic attacks, as well as attacks utilising a quantum computer. --> 2) <!-- [rfced] The following was provided in response to the intake form: This document and draft-ietf-lamps-dilithium-certificates use the same text for one of the security considerations: "ML-DSA depends on high quality random numbers...". That paragraph should be kept the same between both documents. Should the paragraphs be identical? They do not currently match. Please review and let us know how you would like to proceed. Currently in RFC-to-be 9881 <draft-ietf-lamps-dilithium-certificates>: ML-DSA depends on high quality random numbers that are suitable for use in cryptography. The use of inadequate pseudo-random number generators (PRNGs) to generate such values can significantly undermine various security properties. For instance, using an inadequate PRNG for key generation might allow an attacker to efficiently recover the private key by trying a small set of possibilities, rather than brute-force searching the whole keyspace. The generation of random numbers of a sufficient level of quality for use in cryptography is difficult; see Section 3.6.1 of [FIPS204] for some additional information. --> 3) <!-- [rfced] [CSOR] FYI: We have updated the date for this reference from 20 August 2024 to 13 June 2025 to match the information provided at the URL. --> 4) <!-- [rfced] Regarding the text marked <sourcecode> and <artwork>, please review and let us know if any updates are needed. The following was provided in response via the intake form: The draft features an ASN.1 module that is tagged as source code in the XML. The module has been tested to confirm that it compiles. The draft also features example encodings in base64/PEM format and in a parsed representation. These are artefacts produced by an implementation rather than "source code" per se, so aren't tagged that way. Regardless, we've tested the examples against an independent implementation to make sure they work. Please consider whether some should be marked as "x509" for consistency with RFC-to-be 9881 <draft-ietf-lamps-dilithium-certificates>, as the authors of RFC 9881 provided the following guidance: And the PEM examples in the Appendix C.3 can become type “x509”. RFC-to-be 9881 has not yet been updated. 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Note that it is also acceptable to leave the "type" attribute not set. --> 5) <!-- [rfced] Please review the "Inclusive Language" portion of the online Style Guide <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rfc-editor.org%2Fstyleguide%2Fpart2%2F%23inclusive_language&data=05%7C02%7CAdam.r%40ncsc.gov.uk%7C587f4f5c040d473ee4f708de07ccc3eb%7C14aa5744ece1474ea2d734f46dda64a1%7C0%7C0%7C638956773210749870%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qnIhLUedy5Y0nJ0V%2B4%2FWbX1OPO9ZrZaL1LNr7cRreKk%3D&reserved=0<https://www.rfc-editor.org/styleguide/part2/#inclusive_language>> and let us know if any changes are needed. Updates of this nature typically result in more precise language, which is helpful for readers. Note that our script did not flag any words in particular, but this should still be reviewed as a best practice. --> Thank you. Sandy Ginoza RFC Production Center On Oct 9, 2025, at 4:51 PM, [email protected] wrote: *****IMPORTANT***** Updated 2025/10/09 RFC Author(s): -------------- Instructions for Completing AUTH48 Your document has now entered AUTH48. Once it has been reviewed and approved by you and all coauthors, it will be published as an RFC. If an author is no longer available, there are several remedies available as listed in the FAQ (https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rfc-editor.org%2Ffaq%2F&data=05%7C02%7CAdam.r%40ncsc.gov.uk%7C587f4f5c040d473ee4f708de07ccc3eb%7C14aa5744ece1474ea2d734f46dda64a1%7C0%7C0%7C638956773210772258%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xbs47ldq6m5SI5A6JE4HCdusn8CDV40wzxwTRlwSk2w%3D&reserved=0<https://www.rfc-editor.org/faq/>). 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Thank you for your cooperation, RFC Editor -------------------------------------- RFC 9882 (draft-ietf-lamps-cms-ml-dsa-07) Title : Use of the ML-DSA Signature Algorithm in the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) Author(s) : B. Salter, A. Raine, D. Van Geest WG Chair(s) : Russ Housley, Tim Hollebeek Area Director(s) : Deb Cooley, Paul Wouters
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