Hi Rolf, Thank you very much for these answers. I think I have a better handle now on your reasoning. I won't do any more posts on this, because probably by the time you see it, the 22 hours will be up and you won't have a chance to respond. Nice dialoguing with you.
Blessings, Jerry Jerry Shepherd Taylor Seminary Edmonton, Alberta [email protected] On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 4:42 AM, Rolf <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Jerry, > > See my comments below. > > Torsdag 20. Juni 2013 08:41 CEST skrev Jerry Shepherd < > [email protected]>: > > > Hi Rolf, > > > > Thanks for your answers. And now four points/questions/corrections. > > > > 1. Actually, you have been less than forthcoming that KS was an > > abbreviation for KURIOS. And I think that accounts for at least some of > > the flack that you've been getting in some of the responses. Indeed, > even > > in this response you only acknowledge that KS is "most likely" an > > abbreviation for KURIOS. Is there really any doubt? > > I like to look at different possibilities in my studies, and I try to > avoid all-propositions and categorical statements. We do not know all the > circumstances around the creation of the nomina sacra, and I cannot be > certain that all uses of them are similar. So I choose the formulation > "most likely." BTW, this standpoint has been expressed by me in different > writings for many years. > > > > > 2. Now, since you do acknowledge that KS and its variants were "most > > likely" abbreviations for KURIOS, another important question for you to > > answer is: Why was KURIOS chosen to represent YHWH or IAO rather than > some > > other word/title? > > I do not know. But I can point to some possibilities: > > The NT is the collection of writings for the Christian Church. In these > Scriptures there are statements that apostasy from Christianity would > occur. Paul says "until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is > revealed" (2 Thessalonians 2:3 NIVI). The rebellion (apostasy) would occur > after Paul's death. "! know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in > among you and will not spare the flock." (Acts 20:29 NIV). In the days of > John, who evidently was writing in the last part of the first century CE, > apostasy was in full bloom: "Dear children, this is the last hour; and as > you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists > have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. > They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they > had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going > showed that none of them belonged to us." (1 John 2.18, 19 NIV). > > The Tanakh is perfectly clear: YHWH should be the name of the Creator for > ever. Jesus and the Christian writers believed that the Tanakh was the > truth, and was inspired by God ("Your words is truth," John 17:17 NIV; "All > Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting > and training in righteousness, " (2 Timotheus 3:16). On the basis of what > the Tanakh says and the reverence of the NT writers for the words of the > Tanakh, there is no reason why they should not use YHWH in quotes from the > Tanakh. (No list-member has so far given one reason for the deletion of > God's name). > > However, namelessness of the god was important for Plato, for Philo and > for some Egyptian gods, and different groups had a superstitious fear for > pronouncing the name of the God of the Jews. Some of those "who went out > from us" (from the Christian congregations) were influenced by some of > these non-Christian ideas, and it is likely that their scribes deleted YHWH > from the NT manuscripts and used the substitute KURIOS instead, because of > such influence. > > But why did these scribes use KURIOS (KS) and not another word? I see two > possibilities, 1) KURIOS were applied to some gods and rulers, and > therefore it was the best substitute they could think of to express > namelessness, or 2) the superstitious custom of reading 'adonay when YHWH > was written in the text could have been in its infancy, or more widespread, > at the end of the first century CE. So, this custom could have influenced > the copyists and the Greek cognate word KURIOS was used. > > I recommend the book: "The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture. The Effect of > Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament." B.D. > Ehrman, 1993. The author discusses several corruptions of the NT text for > doctrinal reasons. > > > > 3. I know it's hard keeping track of all that people have said in their > > responses, but I have not "closed the door" on the possibility that YHWH > > could have been written in the NT autographs; but I do believe that it is > > extremely unlikely, in that the NT documents are not, like the LXX mss, > > copies or translations of Hebrew mss; rather they are new creations: > > Gospels; historical accounts, and letters. > > RF: It is good to hear that you do not rule out the occurrence of YHWH in > the NT autographs. A balanced scholar keeps the possibilities open until > clear proofs are given for one possibility. It is saddening to see persons > on this list with academic degrees making categorical statements when > evidence, let alone proofs, are lacking. > > > > 4. My questions re the two NT passages do in fact have theological > > implications; but I have no desire to explore them. I only want to know > > what you think was in the autograph. > > RF: I think that the word KURIOS was applied to Jesus and other lords (1 > Corinthians 8:5, 6), and that YHWH was exclusively used of God the Father. > When scribes, who earlier had been a part of one Christian congregation, > deleted YHWH and used the substitute KURIOS, that resulted in confusion. > This is so, because in many cases (at least one hundred) it is not clear > to whom KURIOS refers. It may be that this confusion between God and Jesus > that now was introduced into the manuscripts, was one of the factors that > influenced the bishops when they gradually, at different councils, from the > fourth to the sixth century, formulated the trinity doctrine. > > > > Blessings, > > > > Jerry > > > > Jerry Shepherd > > Taylor Seminary > > Edmonton, Alberta > > [email protected] > > > Best regards, > > > > Rolf Furuli > Stavern > Norway > > > > _______________________________________________ > b-hebrew mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew >
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