Gilberto, At 05:48 PM 1/13/2005, you wrote: >>But they are not saying identical things.<<
I have not been saying that any two religious networks, or religions within them, are "saying identical things." In fact, I have insisted on the opposite point of view. However, it does appear to me that most of them advocate a kind of religious exclusivism and finality. You appear to have taken issue with that idea. >>I understand that if you ignore all the evidence that I'm mentioning and >>*choose* to not make certain distinctions Christianity and Islam are saying >>very similar things from a certain perspective.<< I don't think I have been ignoring your evidence. >>But they are not saying identical things.<< Again, yes, but I am not sure why you are saying so. Who here has argued that they are saying identical things? >>But for some reason the Bahais in here seem to have a hard time recognizing >>those differences.<< Which Baha'is and what differences? >>Forget the quotes for a second. It is glaringly obvious in the ordinary way >>people use language that the New Testament was written, identified and >>compiled as a unit *after* Jesus Christ's earthly ministry.<< Of course, but my point is that, to most evangelical Christians, what is contained in the New Testament nonetheless comes from Christ. They may be incorrect in that assessment, but it is *their* construction of reality. >>That is a real difference. You can choose to ignore it and say it doesn't >>matter. One can also chose to note it and recognize it.<< It is a difference, but I don't see how it relates to what we were discussing. You seem to repeatedly turn the discussion back to that one point. >>There is a real sense in which for Muslims, the Quran came first and then >>"created" the Muslim community. The beginning of revelation marks the >>beginning of Muhammad's prophethood and the Quran guided the community from >>the very beginning.<< I don't think that books, even divine ones, create communities. All communities are constructed by people. >>In contrast, the Church created the Bible.<< That is certainly the view held by some of the Christianities - particularly Eastern Orthodoxy. However, is it correct? Was there really a single unitive church, in the sense we understand it, before the so-called Bible was completed? I am not saying that the social construction of the New Testament resulted in one or more churches, but that the development of the Roman Catholic/Orthodox Church occurred *as* the New Testament was being canonized. One was not exactly the cause of the other. I agree, however, that the Qur'an was formulated under somewhat different circumstances. >>Even the fact that the issue is debateable is another difference. There is a >>high degree of consensus that prophethood is over. And for many a person who >>doesn't believe that Muhammad was the last prophet isn't Muslim.<< That is also true among most Protestants, Orthodox, and Catholics. Prophets are now frequently regarded as a feature of the early church - before canonization. However, again, the fact that the terms "prophetes" and "nabii" (warner) are both often translated into English as "prophet" does not indicate they are necessarily pointing to a similar concept. In my view, they are not. >>You chose to read what I wrote in a certain way. I don't know your intentions >>but you just seemed to want to marginalize what I'm saying and limit it to >>one or two groups of Christians. I think what I"ve been saying applies to >>most Christians.<< I don't see how my arguing that most Protestants, except for Calvinists, do not believe that one could be saved without Jesus is marginalizing what you are saying. >>Yes, that was my intention.<< Except you appeared to say that Jesus was regarded by Christians as the source of salvation before His birth. >>So you quote "I am the way, the truth.." relates to how people are saved. It >>doesn't imply an end of revelation. On the other hand, Muslims generally >>wouldn't say that people are saved by Muhammad in the same sort of way that >>Christians say people are saved by Jesus.<< Yes. As I suggested, they are different kinds of particularism With regards, Mark A. Foster � 15 Sites: http://markfoster.net "Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburger" -- Abbie Hoffman __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
