Gilberto, At 01:27 PM 1/16/2005, you wrote: >>But self-defined fundamentalist Christians who actually believe that >>Catholics aren't Christian are themselves a marginalized group.<<
I am afraid I don't understand your response to what I wrote. I thought we were addressing approaches to prophetology, not marginalization. In any event, marginalization is relative. Roman Catholics have been marginalized for some time in Russia. They are obviously not marginalized in Italy or the Republic of Ireland. >>The majority of self-identified Christians overall are themselves Catholic.<< Yes, but I don't see how that is relevant to the subject. >>And Ecumenism has made at least a few inroads and there are alot of >>Protestants who, even though they might disagree with Catholics about this or >>that, are at least willing to call them "Christian".<< The fundamentalists I was referring to would have nothing to do with the ecumenical movement. >>I gave you a specific example. Of at least one possible way to do it. >>According to some Muslim scholars, a "nabi" is anyone who has received >>revelation.<< Based on that definition, no pentecostals I have ever known would equate prophecy with receiving anything like wahy (thought there may be some). Rev. Moon's and Swedenborg's views could perhaps be regarded as closer to wahy. I have also personally known a couple of Muslim Sufis who claimed to receive "revelations." >>And so, for example Mary is seen by some as a prophet because of the >>Annunciation. Gabriel appeared to her with a message, and gave her an >>invitation to her own baby shower. Right? Moses' mother received revelation >>to put her son in the water.<< I don't know whether they were prophets. >>So in which case, Muslims are saying no more nabis are coming, while >>Catholics and others are saying that such people continue to appear.<< Some Muslims are saying that more prophets (at least one more) are coming. I am unwilling to universalize (beyond the paradigms) the common Sunni view that Qadianis are not Muslims, just as I am unwilling to universalize the common fundamentalist view that Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians. >>If you up the requirement and say a "nabi" is someone who receives revelation >>of a message meant for a larger audience. Then Muslims are still saying no >>more nabis are coming.<< Some Muslims, not all. >>But in the Catholic case you still have something like the secrets of Fatima >>which deals with world-wide events like the fall of communism etc.<< Just because the word "revelation" may be used does not indicate that the meaning is the same. Some Roman Catholics may use the word "revelation" to describe Fatima, Lourdes, etc. However, as with most Muslims, they would not, for the most part, place personal experiences are on the same level as those of Christ Himself. >>It's common for Quakers in the sense that everyone has the inner light. It's >>common among pentecostals because there are many people who would have the >>experience of speaking in tongues and claiming to get messages from God that >>way. Sufis say certain phenomena are possible but I wouldn't call them >>common. It's like a miracle given to saints, not necessarily everyone who >>joins the order.<< So you are basing your argument on frequency? >>Not just stopping there but because it [use of the word prophet] indicates an >>underlying difference.<< I don't think that words indicate anything but the use of those words. >>Thanks for including the link. That description is from an anti-Sufi website >>which is trying to descredit Sufism as a whole and isn't a reliable source of >>information about Sufism. The author is accusing Sufis of claiming revelation >>as a way of refuting them.<< What about the following: "Every time he [Bayazid] had a Divine revelation, he fasten a zunar (a Sufi belt) and he had over seventy zunar. When the time of his passing was close, he went to the altar, put on one zunar, an old reversed rob, backward hat and said: Oh, Allah, this is how I see myself. I am not offering You my life's mortification, my constant prayers, my day and night fasting, You know that nothing will take me from You. I confess that I am shameful, I have nothing, You are the One who has given me all this fortune. I witness that there is no god but You. Your have accepted me. Purify me from my errors, forgive my faults, wash away my shortcomings." http://www.uwaiysi.org/features_archive/2001_oct.html >>http://www.alislam.co.za/file.asp?ID=56<< Obviously, there are different opinions on the subject. With regards, Mark A. Foster � 15 Sites: http://markfoster.net "Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburger" -- Abbie Hoffman __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
