markfoster,
please excuse the delay in replying.. (insert flowery cite from ur favorite
sufi poem here)
as sometimes happens, otehr threads weave about and firm the cord of discourse.
:"which would imply an essential or non-accidental relationship between
meaning and worlds"
i can see the distinction ur feeling. on one hand i agree, on another the
recent discussion about the choice of
nominative or vocative declension concerning the dhikr 95 and arabic vs native
tongue nags at my head as suggesting there are levels we just don;t know about
so far as inherency, as well as (hillel? somebody) commenting "if there were no
words there would be no worlds."
words indeed >should < be tools to convey meaning. if meaning is not conveyed,
there be no word...imho,
just a placeholding sound, as i stated. it is only when the the thought to be
conveyed by the sound and the thought stimulated by
hearing the sound are close alike that the goal of conveying meaning is met.
imho, disucssions here and elsewhere recently on this issue of
self-identification revolve around this problem.
in the 2 views that resolve to a yes/no position, and in general, all the
discussion again appears to me
to hinge on the concept that the noun is the name of the actions of the actor--
to wit, "im a Baha'i since i do abc"... "no ur not becuase a Baha'is also does
xyz".
i am offering for batting about the idea of a 4 state definition.
1. the person associates his deeds/thoughts with Baha'i Text, but not critical
Baha'i Text such as the 8th Ihraq,
or has a view of same that precludes an understanding of the role of the WOB
consonant with that held by the beloved Guardian
and the UHJ.
2. the person associates sufficiently with the above WOB-oriented views of how
to act that membership
in the corporate body of the Baha'i Faith is to them a natural action.
3. the persons deeds are highly in alignment with the do unto others-rest is
commentary Textal view of all
religions, regardless of having never heard of Baha'u'llah, but conductring
such actions in such wise as to allow
for seeking, openness, sense of longing.
4. the person is actively seeking to fill this fit rah induced vacuum,
regardless of the methods or approaches chosen.
as near as i understand your view, def 1 includes the sociologic self id
position.
#2. clearly (at least to these dim eyes) is consonant with the Guardian's
expplicit remarks.
#3 appears to be consonant with the Master's comments, and imho is necessitated
by para 1 of the Aqdas.
#4 is a jihad of mine own, in that such definition encomasses the demographic
id'd in aDj
of the the hungry,restless, the unshephered, around page hmmm high 30s. also
para 1 of the Aqdas, as well as sufi commenateiers about God in the dust, the
beef stew,
the gutter where the light is better, etc.
it sepcifically excludes those whose actions are congurent with the usual list
of virtues but act with or express no sense
of longing, seeking, etc..thus also accounting for fit rah, also accounting for
the thoughts expressed
resecently by khazeh about feeling self -satisfied, etc., and the majrity of
mullahs of any dispensation at the Appearance
as noted in everything from the Surih of Hud to the dawnbreakers.
the benfits of such a definition to the sociological persepctive is it allows
for the sighting by its effects of fit rah,
provides a harmony of science/religion in re the observed data of the number
of people open to chqanging their
rteligious identity (which i recall as being reported by nsa/usa as more than a
few million a couple years back),
offers a non-blaming explanation for some of the actions of those opposing or
being numb to the Appearance,
and opens the door for some of tbe retchid refuse of the teeming shores of His
Grace possible recongition
by the yes of those whose job it is to bear the Cup to all at the party.
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