Hi, Here is the log of the chatroom at http://farsides.com/chat/ (or irc://irc.freenode.net/#farsides) for the 2011-05-31.
2011-05-31 01:38:10+0000 rogerio_ (rogerio_) is now online 2011-05-31 03:11:32+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2011-05-31 04:14:07+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: 2011-05-31 04:14:16+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: are you there? 2011-05-31 05:55:21+0000 dachary (dachary) is now online 2011-05-31 06:49:44+0000 <blanchard> antoviaque: hi 2011-05-31 06:50:25+0000 <blanchard> are you around ? Can i come to menilmontant to work this morning 2011-05-31 07:02:41+0000 <dachary> good question 2011-05-31 07:55:02+0000 <antoviaque> of course : ) 2011-05-31 07:55:12+0000 * antoviaque just finished cleaning the living room 2011-05-31 07:55:31+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: blanchard: you're most welcome to come here : ) 2011-05-31 08:54:06+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2011-05-31 08:55:08+0000 tartarugafeliz (tartarugafeliz) is now online 2011-05-31 09:18:03+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: reading http://dachary.org/?p=597 - "However, when the user clicks on the invite more friends link while waiting for players to pick a card, the cookie is reset so that invitations are not sent twice." => they shouldn't be sent twice, since the patch server side made sure the webservice accepts the same invitation twice for the same game (and ignores it if the person has already been invited) 2011-05-31 09:18:39+0000 <antoviaque> this could avoid resetting the cookie, which makes the user lose his presets 2011-05-31 09:20:06+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: the invitations are sent *before* this code is activated. 2011-05-31 09:20:28+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: but romulo's work makes all this pointless since it's fully reimplemented 2011-05-31 09:20:50+0000 <antoviaque> ok then : ) 2011-05-31 09:20:53+0000 <dachary> and the invite notification will only list the players for which a new invitation needs to be sent 2011-05-31 09:22:57+0000 <antoviaque> I see 2011-05-31 09:24:52+0000 <antoviaque> thanks for the reports btw, it's always interesting to read 2011-05-31 09:25:02+0000 <antoviaque> and I really like the plugin system :) 2011-05-31 09:35:19+0000 <dachary> I'm glad you do :-) 2011-05-31 09:46:19+0000 <blanchard> antoviaque: back from the greffe. They're starting to know me over there... I'll come to menilmontant some time this afternoon if that's ok 2011-05-31 09:46:29+0000 <antoviaque> yup, sure! 2011-05-31 11:50:38+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2011-05-31 11:51:06+0000 <antoviaque> re (troubles with evolution today, yeyy) 2011-05-31 12:15:05+0000 da (da) is now online 2011-05-31 12:20:01+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2011-05-31 13:51:36+0000 tempuramerino (tempuramerino) is now online 2011-05-31 14:11:10+0000 romulo (romulo) is now online 2011-05-31 14:11:14+0000 <romulo> morning =] 2011-05-31 14:11:15+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, ping 2011-05-31 14:11:26+0000 <da> hi romulo 2011-05-31 14:11:31+0000 <romulo> da, hi there =] 2011-05-31 14:16:33+0000 <antoviaque> hi romulo :) 2011-05-31 14:18:23+0000 rogerio (rogerio) is now online 2011-05-31 14:18:31+0000 <antoviaque> hi rogerio : ) 2011-05-31 14:18:32+0000 <rogerio> antoviaque: Hi 2011-05-31 14:18:37+0000 <rogerio> :) 2011-05-31 14:18:41+0000 <rogerio> Hi 2011-05-31 14:18:44+0000 <antoviaque> how are you today? 2011-05-31 14:19:02+0000 <rogerio> I closed two tasks yesterday, I worked I lot 2011-05-31 14:19:13+0000 * antoviaque got backstabbed by evolution 2011-05-31 14:19:36+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio: congratz! thanks for this :) 2011-05-31 14:20:03+0000 <antoviaque> I haven't reviewed the tasks today yet - which ones did you work on? 2011-05-31 14:20:39+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, did you noticed i subscribed myself to 65? 2011-05-31 14:20:45+0000 <romulo> going to deliver it today, at afternoon 2011-05-31 14:21:09+0000 <romulo> da, looking for another pieces of the contract i didnt understand =] 2011-05-31 14:22:33+0000 <romulo> da, i also got your HR email. Can you wait for the big ticket review before issuing the payment? 2011-05-31 14:23:00+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: looking at it right now 2011-05-31 14:23:09+0000 rogerio_ (rogerio_) is now online 2011-05-31 14:23:09+0000 <da> yep that should not be a problem romulo 2011-05-31 14:23:12+0000 <antoviaque> cool, seems good 2011-05-31 14:23:26+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: for #65 did you take into account the plugin system? 2011-05-31 14:23:26+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: I think I lost connection 2011-05-31 14:23:39+0000 <rogerio_> did you see my last messages? 2011-05-31 14:23:49+0000 <da> it's for you, the sooner you close it, the better ;) 2011-05-31 14:23:51+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: hum, last one I saw was 2011-05-31 14:23:57+0000 <antoviaque> (04:19:03 PM) rogerio: I closed two tasks yesterday, I worked I lot 2011-05-31 14:24:03+0000 <rogerio_> hmm 2011-05-31 14:24:05+0000 <rogerio_> ok 2011-05-31 14:24:06+0000 <antoviaque> then i said 2011-05-31 14:24:07+0000 <antoviaque> (04:19:37 PM) antoviaque: rogerio: congratz! thanks for this :) 2011-05-31 14:24:08+0000 <antoviaque> (04:20:04 PM) antoviaque: I haven't reviewed the tasks today yet - which ones did you work on? 2011-05-31 14:24:18+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, i did take into account the new listen() and notify() functions of service 2011-05-31 14:24:42+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: I'll tell which is 2011-05-31 14:25:18+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: it's on what dachary shown you yesterday, http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/63 2011-05-31 14:25:25+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/54 and http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/16 2011-05-31 14:25:36+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, i know, i still have to push some opinions there 2011-05-31 14:25:54+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: ok, cool : ) did it went well? 2011-05-31 14:26:17+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: yep - but this will need to be finalized before a task that depends on it can be accepted 2011-05-31 14:26:34+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: yes 2011-05-31 14:26:53+0000 <antoviaque> and http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/65 depends on it 2011-05-31 14:26:54+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, oh, you should have stated then that #65 required the plugin system 2011-05-31 14:27:24+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, the ticket is pretty empty, and since i couldnt reach you yesterday by afternoon, it was impossible to know that 2011-05-31 14:27:25+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: I didn't knew it when I wrote the task - that's why we need to chose the tasks together : ) 2011-05-31 14:27:40+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: I still have doubst about the Feature #4 - Setup symfony to dynamically add OpenGraph headers to served pages 2011-05-31 14:28:06+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: yup, what part do you need explanations on? 2011-05-31 14:28:22+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, anyway, lets hold the ticket then 2011-05-31 14:28:29+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, the estimate still holds 4 hours 2011-05-31 14:28:32+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: did you work on it already? 2011-05-31 14:28:40+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, almost complete =P 2011-05-31 14:28:44+0000 <antoviaque> argh 2011-05-31 14:29:01+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: Do Cardstories already use symfony? 2011-05-31 14:29:28+0000 <antoviaque> well, you can still keep it I think, it's just that you'll have to adapt the patch to fit the plugin system - but it works with the same principle, so hopefully it won't be too much work (to confirm) 2011-05-31 14:29:51+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: nope - that's where you come in : ) 2011-05-31 14:30:43+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: can you have a look at the plugin system description, and let me know how much work it would add to adapt your patch? 2011-05-31 14:30:54+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, yeah =] 2011-05-31 14:30:59+0000 <antoviaque> thanks : ) 2011-05-31 14:31:16+0000 <antoviaque> if it adds a lot, because it's the first time this happens, we can review the estimate 2011-05-31 14:31:20+0000 <rogerio_> Do I need to install symfony and render the Cardstories pages through symphony? 2011-05-31 14:31:51+0000 <rogerio_> Why not just fill the metadata on index.html? Why do we need symfony? 2011-05-31 14:31:52+0000 <antoviaque> but next time be sure you've got an ok before starting : ) 2011-05-31 14:31:56+0000 <dachary> (I'm busy and can't read the backlog : if you need my attention, please say my name ;-) 2011-05-31 14:32:31+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: yes, exactly - the reason why it can't be done in the index.html is that this changes from one game to the other 2011-05-31 14:32:53+0000 <antoviaque> and google bot won't execute the javascript ;p 2011-05-31 14:34:03+0000 <rogerio_> ok, so symphony will provide static HTML, I'm I right 2011-05-31 14:34:07+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: ok, no problem - discussing how we can manage a new task that depends on the plugin system with romulo right now - questions may come down the line : ) 2011-05-31 14:34:10+0000 <rogerio_> ? 2011-05-31 14:35:00+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: most of it will be static yep - except the open graph headers, which will depend on the game_id 2011-05-31 14:35:13+0000 <rogerio_> yes, I understand 2011-05-31 14:36:09+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: maybe we can use template system like jinja, what do you think? 2011-05-31 14:36:43+0000 <antoviaque> yup, there are lots of possibilities 2011-05-31 14:37:00+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: og:title ("Card Stories: {{ sentence }}") -> jinja will fill these values 2011-05-31 14:37:15+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: but here dachary chose symfony, after looking at a lot of possible options 2011-05-31 14:37:42+0000 <antoviaque> there are other constraints to take into account - right now we only use it to transform headers for opengraph 2011-05-31 14:38:00+0000 <antoviaque> but we'll also use it for Facebook connect, for processing billing payments, etc. 2011-05-31 14:38:22+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, this also mean that i will need to change #47 for the new plugin too? 2011-05-31 14:38:36+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: nope 2011-05-31 14:38:44+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, ok 2011-05-31 14:39:04+0000 <antoviaque> this ticket was from before the plugin system, so your patch would be adapted when the plugin system is implemented 2011-05-31 14:39:08+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: do we really need to use external service for this? I need to understand why not use a template system internally 2011-05-31 14:39:16+0000 <rogerio_> just to fill the values 2011-05-31 14:39:55+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: ah! because twisted only handles a webservice, not the generation of HTML 2011-05-31 14:40:04+0000 <antoviaque> I mean, in the current architecture 2011-05-31 14:40:52+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: hmm, ok, understood. Maybe we can provide generation of HTML. What do you think? 2011-05-31 14:41:13+0000 <antoviaque> Yep, that's the goal: to add a layer that provides the server-side generation of HTML pages 2011-05-31 14:41:20+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: which is better? internally or externally? 2011-05-31 14:42:00+0000 <antoviaque> externally - twisted is good to do a webservice, not to handle Facebook authentification for example 2011-05-31 14:42:22+0000 <rogerio_> ok 2011-05-31 14:42:46+0000 <romulo> dachary, updated http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/63 2011-05-31 14:43:11+0000 <rogerio_> I was thinking in perhaps use Flask. Do you this Python framework? too simple to use 2011-05-31 14:43:30+0000 <rogerio_> http://flask.pocoo.org/ 2011-05-31 14:43:52+0000 <rogerio_> "Do you" -> "Do you know" 2011-05-31 14:44:09+0000 <antoviaque> Personally, I would use a small set of individual tools (like the template engine you mention) and build it up this way, but since this kind of choice is always a subject to trolls, I prefer to let the choice to loic 2011-05-31 14:44:48+0000 <romulo> oh da, found something that pokes me in the contract 2011-05-31 14:45:43+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: I think we will all have a different opinion for the framework, for this kind of things imho it's good to trust dachary and go with his choice 2011-05-31 14:45:46+0000 <romulo> da, since my timezone is very different from yours, i usually get tickets in one day (at ~10-11am GMT -3) and deliver it in the next day (~12am GMT-3). Is that a blocker? 2011-05-31 14:45:54+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, ^ 2011-05-31 14:46:10+0000 <romulo> romulo, i have been doing like that since the beginning 2011-05-31 14:46:10+0000 <antoviaque> no worries for me 2011-05-31 14:46:33+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, also, the social contract is outdated in contracts, no? 2011-05-31 14:46:36+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: Ok, do you think I should discuss with dachary? 2011-05-31 14:46:43+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: what part? 2011-05-31 14:46:50+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: Or just use symfony? 2011-05-31 14:47:17+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, first, it says bazaar 2011-05-31 14:47:23+0000 <romulo> Second, launchpad 2011-05-31 14:47:26+0000 <da> romulo: it is not a blocker at all. If it troubles you, point to me the paragraph and I can adapt this. 2011-05-31 14:47:55+0000 <da> romulo: what about the social contract ? 2011-05-31 14:48:06+0000 <romulo> da, just said 2011-05-31 14:48:16+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: hmmm, you can try discussing since the decision was made one month ago, so he could have changed his mind in the meantime, but personally I'd just go with symfony 2011-05-31 14:48:30+0000 <romulo> and are we really support all these firefox versions? 2011-05-31 14:49:07+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: ah yes, the deliverables are for HPO - those ones need to be updated (put a ticket in the tracker) 2011-05-31 14:49:23+0000 <antoviaque> (I mean I have put a ticket in the tracker) 2011-05-31 14:49:34+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, yeah must fix that in the contract, before it gets signed (afaik) 2011-05-31 14:50:03+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: not at the moment no - once again the requirements are not the right ones 2011-05-31 14:50:13+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: ok, understood. I'll use symfony for this. 2011-05-31 14:50:48+0000 <romulo> <antoviaque> romulo: not at the moment no - once again the requirements are not the right ones -> refers to? 2011-05-31 14:51:28+0000 <rogerio_> da: Hi 2011-05-31 14:51:36+0000 <rogerio_> da: How are you? 2011-05-31 14:51:45+0000 <da> good thx :) 2011-05-31 14:51:50+0000 <da> and you rogerio_ ? 2011-05-31 14:51:52+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: ok - if any issue arises with symfony don't hesitate - framework have a tendency to make simple things complicated, so if you get stuck we can rediscuss it 2011-05-31 14:52:10+0000 <rogerio_> I'm fine :) 2011-05-31 14:52:26+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: (04:48:31 PM) romulo: and are we really support all these firefox versions? 2011-05-31 14:52:28+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: thanks a lot Xavier 2011-05-31 14:52:35+0000 <rogerio_> About the last email "closure of month" 2011-05-31 14:52:39+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, ok =] 2011-05-31 14:53:04+0000 <rogerio_> I remember we had discussed before about the first Task price 2011-05-31 14:53:10+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: for the requirements, the contract gives a procedure for changing the requirements, so it's not a blocker for signing imho 2011-05-31 14:53:27+0000 <rogerio_> da: did you remember? 2011-05-31 14:53:35+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, ok 2011-05-31 14:53:36+0000 <antoviaque> but if you really want to see them updated quickly, patches are welcome ;p 2011-05-31 14:54:01+0000 <da> rogerio_: yes the first day was not at the same price as the next ones correct 2011-05-31 14:54:21+0000 <da> i have this in my 'do not forget things' list :) 2011-05-31 14:54:48+0000 <rogerio_> da: Is that task - 0.5 day (ticket : #27) you mentioned? 2011-05-31 14:55:46+0000 <rogerio_> da: ok, understood, I'll make an invoice document and I'll send it to you soon 2011-05-31 14:55:47+0000 <da> it's one day for me rogerio_ so it'll be the #27 and the next one at 0.5 that you'll close which will be impacted by this specific first day price 2011-05-31 14:56:19+0000 <da> works for you rogerio_ ? 2011-05-31 14:56:46+0000 <rogerio_> da: ok, it works 2011-05-31 14:56:51+0000 <rogerio_> da: thanks :) 2011-05-31 14:56:56+0000 <da> np :) 2011-05-31 14:57:07+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: btw for symfony, use symfony 1, not 2, which is still bleeding edge 2011-05-31 14:57:26+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: ok, thanks for the tip Xavier 2011-05-31 14:57:36+0000 <antoviaque> yw :) 2011-05-31 14:58:04+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: and I'm sorry for trying to change your minds in terms of framework use :) ahahahhahha (just kidding) 2011-05-31 14:58:21+0000 <antoviaque> ahah, no worries - personally I don't have any religion in the matter : ) 2011-05-31 14:58:30+0000 <rogerio_> hahahah 2011-05-31 14:58:53+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: antoviaque: I need to go now, do you have any other queston for me? 2011-05-31 14:59:03+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: time lunch 2011-05-31 14:59:06+0000 <dachary> back 2011-05-31 14:59:19+0000 <antoviaque> As I said my natural tendency would be more to use small bricks, like a templating engine, data objects, a oauth library etc. to mirror the MVC model but avoid frameworks altogether 2011-05-31 14:59:33+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: nope, all good : ) 2011-05-31 14:59:37+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: re : ) 2011-05-31 14:59:42+0000 <dachary> romulo: reading 2011-05-31 14:59:42+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: yes, I understand 2011-05-31 14:59:58+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: thanks Xavier 2011-05-31 15:00:06+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: thanks to you : ) 2011-05-31 15:00:11+0000 <rogerio_> antoviaque: have a nice day :) 2011-05-31 15:00:22+0000 <rogerio_> da: have a nice day you too :) 2011-05-31 15:00:42+0000 <da> thx rogerio_ bon appétit 2011-05-31 15:00:45+0000 <rogerio_> everyone: bye, see you soon :) 2011-05-31 15:00:46+0000 <antoviaque> and don't worry, you'll get occasions to push this kind of things more, for things which haven't been decided yet 2011-05-31 15:00:59+0000 <antoviaque> it's just that that one was discussed before you arrived 2011-05-31 15:01:11+0000 <antoviaque> rogerio_: bye : ) 2011-05-31 15:01:19+0000 <rogerio_> thanks, bye :) 2011-05-31 15:03:03+0000 <da> rogerio_: one more thing if you're still around. For the invoice, better to wait a little to see how many tasks we can include in the month 2011-05-31 15:03:25+0000 <da> because currently, there's only 0.5, but you have a lot that are in review 2011-05-31 15:04:57+0000 <dachary> romulo: http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/63#note-3 2011-05-31 15:05:56+0000 <dachary> (updated the note) 2011-05-31 16:39:15+0000 <rogerio_> 'da: ok, thanks David 2011-05-31 16:40:39+0000 <da> yep rogerio_ what i suggest is that we discuss tomorrow to see if we can finalize the number of days for the month 2011-05-31 16:41:02+0000 <da> (hoping that some of your tasks are merged until tomorrow :)) 2011-05-31 16:41:55+0000 <romulo> dachary, http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/63#note-4 2011-05-31 16:42:17+0000 <rogerio_> da: I hope too :) 2011-05-31 16:49:38+0000 <antoviaque> da: dachary: tartarugafeliz: http://farsides.com/blog/members/antoviaque/activity/725/ - ok for Thursday 7pm? 2011-05-31 16:50:34+0000 <da> yay :) 2011-05-31 16:52:33+0000 <tartarugafeliz> thursday is holidays! 2011-05-31 16:52:36+0000 <tartarugafeliz> in france 2011-05-31 16:52:45+0000 <tartarugafeliz> I work on holidays :P (I'm in) 2011-05-31 16:59:38+0000 <da> bbl, bye everyone 2011-05-31 17:13:46+0000 <romulo> bbl, bye 2011-05-31 17:29:05+0000 tempuramerino (tempuramerino) is now online 2011-05-31 17:31:19+0000 <antoviaque> tartarugafeliz: blanchard: yey :D 2011-05-31 19:31:58+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: when do you want to discuss the solo mode btw? 2011-05-31 19:32:04+0000 * antoviaque is looking at the tickets 2011-05-31 19:36:37+0000 <antoviaque> blanchard: did you take on http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/58 at the end? 2011-05-31 19:39:15+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: ok thursday 7pm 2011-05-31 19:39:21+0000 <antoviaque> kewl : ) 2011-05-31 19:39:47+0000 * dachary wrote in org-mode 2011-05-31 19:39:56+0000 <antoviaque> ahah 2011-05-31 19:40:02+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I can discuss it now if you like 2011-05-31 19:40:24+0000 <antoviaque> today I switched from evolution to thunderbid - much better than the last time I tried, the plugins start to fill the usability gap : ) 2011-05-31 19:40:32+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: would be perfect 2011-05-31 19:40:47+0000 <antoviaque> it's in http://farsides.com/wiki/Card_Stories_-_Solo_Mode 2011-05-31 19:40:54+0000 <blanchard> antoviaque: not yet, i plan to take the 58 tomorrow if noone has taken it until then :) 2011-05-31 19:41:05+0000 <antoviaque> blanchard: ok : ) 2011-05-31 19:46:16+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: there is a separation that seem obvious, between the part on the webservice, and then in a second time the client-side implementation 2011-05-31 19:46:27+0000 <antoviaque> but those two are still big 2011-05-31 19:52:45+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: are you happy about the workflow ? are you hopefull that it will please the user ? 2011-05-31 19:53:39+0000 <antoviaque> yes, it mirrors the multiplayer workflow, so it's good for a first try imho 2011-05-31 19:53:56+0000 <antoviaque> and it should allow the implementation to remain minimal 2011-05-31 19:54:42+0000 <antoviaque> Ideally there would be no modification of the game workflow - only a specific call to create the single player game, but then the difference would only be server side once in the game 2011-05-31 19:55:35+0000 <dachary> ok. Let me take a closer look then and I'll let you know what I think, technically speaking ;-) 2011-05-31 19:55:49+0000 <antoviaque> (which is a cool side effect of your webservice architecture btw, congratz ;p ) 2011-05-31 19:55:56+0000 rogerio_ (rogerio_) is now offline 2011-05-31 19:55:57+0000 <antoviaque> ok : ) 2011-05-31 19:57:48+0000 <dachary> I assume the mockups really are the current integration, is that correct ? 2011-05-31 19:58:28+0000 <dachary> it looks quite different 2011-05-31 19:58:32+0000 <dachary> http://farsides.com/images/b/b5/CardStories_Solo_Pick.jpg 2011-05-31 19:58:43+0000 <antoviaque> yes, it doesn't change 2011-05-31 19:59:32+0000 <antoviaque> as said above, ideally we would use exactly the same code and views in the solo mode - at least to start with 2011-05-31 19:59:42+0000 <antoviaque> (JS code and views) 2011-05-31 20:00:01+0000 <dachary> Yet the http://farsides.com/wiki/Card_Stories_-_Solo_Mode describes interface changes 2011-05-31 20:00:16+0000 <dachary> it makes it difficult for me to judge what's part of solo and what's not 2011-05-31 20:01:03+0000 <antoviaque> You mean the Player status and current stories? 2011-05-31 20:01:51+0000 <dachary> yes 2011-05-31 20:01:53+0000 <dachary> I've also added 3 other modules: 2011-05-31 20:01:54+0000 <dachary> etc. 2011-05-31 20:02:13+0000 <antoviaque> yep, he put everything there, but this would be also cut as separate tasks 2011-05-31 20:02:20+0000 <dachary> have you discussed with Charles about how important this is with regard to the understanding of the game ? 2011-05-31 20:02:59+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: ok, so you would like me to voice my opinion on the solo mode only, not the interface changes included in the same description. Am I understanding correctly ? 2011-05-31 20:03:00+0000 <antoviaque> Actually my plan is to have Deborah and Laurent review this and the other comments that have been made about the interface since their last pass 2011-05-31 20:03:54+0000 <antoviaque> This way they can keep the ownership on the interface design, and they can see if/how they think it's important to integrate it as is 2011-05-31 20:04:02+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: yep, only the solo mode 2011-05-31 20:04:12+0000 * dachary back reading 2011-05-31 20:05:07+0000 <antoviaque> right now the game is becoming a control tower desk, and I know tartaruga wants to fix this and clear up the space 2011-05-31 20:05:58+0000 <antoviaque> so there will likely be some choice to make about the importance of elements, and which ones to keep/change/add 2011-05-31 20:09:40+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I get a strong feeling that the usefulness of the solo mode, from Charles point of view, depends on the visibility of the other players actions 2011-05-31 20:10:15+0000 <antoviaque> it's linked yes, but the visibility of other players actions is not specific to the solo mode 2011-05-31 20:10:21+0000 <dachary> yes 2011-05-31 20:10:29+0000 <antoviaque> so the other modules are really separate tasks imho 2011-05-31 20:10:46+0000 <dachary> Other than this, it looks useful and not too difficult to implement. 2011-05-31 20:10:50+0000 <antoviaque> and if my memories are right, they are already in the tracker 2011-05-31 20:11:08+0000 <antoviaque> yep, very curious to try it out, and see if it's fun : ) 2011-05-31 20:11:09+0000 <dachary> I think a first task could be to log all actions (you already defined such a task). 2011-05-31 20:11:17+0000 <antoviaque> yep, romulo is on it 2011-05-31 20:11:59+0000 <antoviaque> (talked to him about the plugin system btw - he had started implementing it on top of his current architecture) 2011-05-31 20:12:58+0000 <dachary> And then simulating other players. 2011-05-31 20:13:18+0000 <dachary> I'm tempted to do this as an external process. 2011-05-31 20:13:35+0000 <dachary> Scripting the player behavior 2011-05-31 20:13:50+0000 <dachary> and reading instructions from a database of previously recorded events / games. 2011-05-31 20:14:26+0000 <dachary> I don't think it would be a good move to change the core of the game to enable replay or automatic play under some conditions. 2011-05-31 20:14:31+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: do you get what I mean ? 2011-05-31 20:14:42+0000 <antoviaque> I see yep 2011-05-31 20:14:45+0000 <dachary> I favor implementing bots over implementing a solo mode in the server. 2011-05-31 20:15:31+0000 <antoviaque> it makes sense 2011-05-31 20:15:54+0000 <dachary> A bot would control X players in Y games. But it would use the REST interface of the server. The fact that it draws its actions from past games would be secondary. 2011-05-31 20:16:16+0000 <dachary> It could as well be an AI trying to understand the semantic of the sentences for all we care. 2011-05-31 20:16:34+0000 <antoviaque> actually it even opens new possibilities - like improving the smartness of such bots 2011-05-31 20:16:51+0000 <antoviaque> (I can see your poker experience surfacing here ;p) 2011-05-31 20:17:04+0000 <antoviaque> I like it : ) 2011-05-31 20:17:33+0000 <dachary> :-D 2011-05-31 20:18:17+0000 <dachary> the poker bots were most certainly the most stable part of the code base. It barely changed over 5 years. They were dam stupid but they had their use. 2011-05-31 20:18:28+0000 <antoviaque> :) 2011-05-31 20:20:11+0000 <dachary> BTW, it would be worth discussing with charles if we're really after a solo mode. Or if we're after a mode where you always have an oponent ready to play with you. 2011-05-31 20:20:33+0000 <dachary> The current description suggests the later. 2011-05-31 20:20:57+0000 <dachary> Or are there "solo type actions" which I missed and that would make no sense in real multiplayer ? 2011-05-31 20:21:05+0000 <antoviaque> Nope 2011-05-31 20:21:44+0000 <antoviaque> but there may be some that emerge from seeing the feature in front of us 2011-05-31 20:22:12+0000 <antoviaque> one way is what you said, aka finding other players to play with immediately in "live" 2011-05-31 20:22:25+0000 <antoviaque> (and we'll probably need that anyway at some point) 2011-05-31 20:23:30+0000 <antoviaque> another one is the possibility of "scripted" games, replaying high rated games, and tutorials 2011-05-31 20:24:41+0000 <antoviaque> but in any case it's hard to say if the later would compensate the lack of real humans, and for the former we don't have enough players to make it practical today 2011-05-31 20:25:04+0000 <antoviaque> so as it is it's more an intermediary step to a tutorial 2011-05-31 20:25:07+0000 <blanchard> for the record (we talked about it today antoviaque) originally charles work on solo comes from the question of the first contact with the game 2011-05-31 20:25:13+0000 <blanchard> as in http://farsides.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/group-documents/10/1305667527-CardStories_Navigation_through_Game_Modes.jpg 2011-05-31 20:25:27+0000 <blanchard> yep antoviaque tutorial that's what i meant 2011-05-31 20:25:37+0000 <antoviaque> yup :) 2011-05-31 20:26:50+0000 <antoviaque> Charles' mission is before all to make the first contact with the game less frustrating 2011-05-31 20:27:18+0000 <dachary> I think the bot algorithm could go as follows: the bot process starts X "bot games/known games" which to which it registers X - 1 players. When the latest player registers (a human since the bot will never register the last player), the bots start to play their script. 2011-05-31 20:27:37+0000 <antoviaque> (right now, when you're invited to a game, you get to chose a card and then just have to wait, without much insight on how the game works or any incentive to come back, given how little of the game we have seen then) 2011-05-31 20:28:00+0000 <dachary> For this to work the server would have to allow the author of a game to distribute specific cards to a set of designated players. 2011-05-31 20:28:27+0000 <dachary> Which is a feature that could be granted to all game authors, even though only the bots would use it. 2011-05-31 20:29:25+0000 <dachary> With the bots you would immediately go to vote mode and immediately see the result board because they play as fast as possible. 2011-05-31 20:30:18+0000 <dachary> The way I see it there is a minimal subtask that we cannot avoid, server side : allow the author to setup a game where he also picks which players are in the game and which cards they have. 2011-05-31 20:31:32+0000 <antoviaque> yup 2011-05-31 20:31:38+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I get a clearer picture of how it could be done. 2011-05-31 20:32:11+0000 <antoviaque> probably something that shouldn't be allowed from "real" authors, otherwise it gets a bit too easy to cheat ;p 2011-05-31 20:32:20+0000 <antoviaque> but for now we don't care : ) 2011-05-31 20:32:26+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: yes 2011-05-31 20:32:37+0000 <dachary> and even if... i wonder how they could actually cheat 2011-05-31 20:32:43+0000 <antoviaque> I like this way, it's cool to create fake players 2011-05-31 20:32:45+0000 <dachary> they know all about the game anyway 2011-05-31 20:32:48+0000 <antoviaque> We could put them in our MAU 2011-05-31 20:32:56+0000 <dachary> MAU ? 2011-05-31 20:32:57+0000 <blanchard> yay i like that 2011-05-31 20:33:00+0000 <blanchard> :) 2011-05-31 20:33:09+0000 <antoviaque> monthly active users ;p 2011-05-31 20:33:13+0000 <dachary> ahahaha 2011-05-31 20:33:14+0000 <blanchard> we have 500 real players 2011-05-31 20:33:19+0000 <blanchard> and 3 million bots 2011-05-31 20:33:51+0000 <blanchard> and the bots never leave the game, perfect retention 2011-05-31 20:34:04+0000 <blanchard> thx antoviaque adding it to the business plan 2011-05-31 20:34:11+0000 <antoviaque> ;p 2011-05-31 20:34:43+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: is there anything else that should be addressed and that was not discussed here ? 2011-05-31 20:34:47+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: true, would be a game in itself to find the right cheat with this extra author feature ;p 2011-05-31 20:35:22+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: the part at the bottom of the wiki page 2011-05-31 20:35:30+0000 <antoviaque> http://farsides.com/wiki/Card_Stories_-_Solo_Mode#But_how_does_it_work.3F 2011-05-31 20:35:57+0000 <antoviaque> how to select the right games, and select the player being replaced by the player who plays solo 2011-05-31 20:36:42+0000 <dachary> I'd say you have a lobby tab with lots of solo mode and the player choses 2011-05-31 20:37:00+0000 <dachary> and the player being replaced is picked at random 2011-05-31 20:37:50+0000 <dachary> unless we're looking at a tutorial where you want to layout a given set of situations 2011-05-31 20:37:57+0000 <antoviaque> we have to put some rules or a manual selection, otherwise it's going to be difficult to find what works well 2011-05-31 20:37:58+0000 <dachary> are we ? 2011-05-31 20:38:25+0000 <antoviaque> yep, the idea is to provide a god 2-3 games to play solo and explain the game the first time 2011-05-31 20:38:31+0000 <antoviaque> s/god/good/ 2011-05-31 20:39:12+0000 <antoviaque> if it's interesting for more, all the best, but we need to be able to find the right experience for newcomers 2011-05-31 20:39:23+0000 <dachary> I think this is beyond the scope of the document, really. There would need to be another document addressing this tutorial process. 2011-05-31 20:39:27+0000 <antoviaque> and which game/player they are playing will have important 2011-05-31 20:39:42+0000 <dachary> A tutorial could make use of a solo mode. 2011-05-31 20:40:24+0000 <antoviaque> what we need right now it's simply a way to select which games are presented to be played in the solo mode, and which player the player would play 2011-05-31 20:40:25+0000 <dachary> But trying to resolve the solo mode together with the tutorial is going to make a fairly complex task altogether. 2011-05-31 20:41:22+0000 <dachary> Understood 2011-05-31 20:41:49+0000 <dachary> Then you can turn this last chapter into what you just wrote and that would be specific enough. 2011-05-31 20:43:40+0000 <dachary> Note that the game result will most likely *not* be what you're after because the player will have 1 chance out of 7 to not pick the same card as the player he replaced and player - 1 chance to vote for a different card. 2011-05-31 20:44:09+0000 <antoviaque> yup, the end result would have to be calculated depending on the player choice, of course 2011-05-31 20:44:32+0000 <dachary> My hunch is that you're after a truly random draw of live games so that the player can enjoy multiple situations you don't control. And beyond this you need to script situations. 2011-05-31 20:45:23+0000 <dachary> But I'm just stating my non professional opinion and I'd be happy to implement pre-chosen games instead. I have no strong feelings ;-) 2011-05-31 20:45:30+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: agreed - but not all games and players will be enjoyable 2011-05-31 20:45:49+0000 <antoviaque> hmmm 2011-05-31 20:45:51+0000 * antoviaque thinking 2011-05-31 20:46:47+0000 <antoviaque> It's true that we could start with something completely random, from all games and player positions, and see how it goes 2011-05-31 20:49:17+0000 <antoviaque> so if I recap, it gives the following tasks: 2011-05-31 20:49:27+0000 <antoviaque> 1) log all actions 2011-05-31 20:49:53+0000 <antoviaque> 2) allow the author to setup a game where he picks players and cards (webservice) 2011-05-31 20:50:09+0000 <antoviaque> 3) Game/author bot 2011-05-31 20:50:15+0000 <antoviaque> 4) Player bot 2011-05-31 20:50:34+0000 <antoviaque> Right? 2011-05-31 20:50:40+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: ^ 2011-05-31 20:51:15+0000 <antoviaque> and of course 5) Add create solo button to JS interface : ) 2011-05-31 20:51:36+0000 <dachary> right 2011-05-31 20:51:49+0000 <antoviaque> not so sure about 3) & 4) - does it cut nicely into two different tasks? 2011-05-31 20:52:00+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: 6) mockup the corresponding pages 2011-05-31 20:52:14+0000 <antoviaque> They will be pretty dependent on each other 2011-05-31 20:52:19+0000 <dachary> 3+4 are probably the same task 2011-05-31 20:52:24+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: for the mockups, it's actually only a button 2011-05-31 20:52:38+0000 <dachary> is it ? 2011-05-31 20:52:49+0000 <dachary> you pick a game at random ? 2011-05-31 20:52:51+0000 <antoviaque> since after that it's all either random or the normal workflow of a game from the player view 2011-05-31 20:53:00+0000 <antoviaque> yup, I followed your advice : ) 2011-05-31 20:53:12+0000 <dachary> I thought it could be a tab along with "finished" and "in progress" 2011-05-31 20:53:23+0000 <dachary> the user could chose the sentence he likes 2011-05-31 20:53:56+0000 <dachary> he would not get to pick which player he plays because there would be no way to make that right 2011-05-31 20:54:11+0000 <dachary> but I don't see the need to draw the game at random where the user can chose 2011-05-31 20:54:17+0000 <dachary> it makes it simpler though 2011-05-31 20:54:52+0000 <antoviaque> hmm, true, it would also provide an history of all games played on the server 2011-05-31 20:54:59+0000 <antoviaque> which can be fun to follow 2011-05-31 20:56:01+0000 <blanchard> i like that, a choice of sentence can be appealing for the player, good sentences can trigger the motivation to play 2011-05-31 20:56:20+0000 <antoviaque> it could probably be tasks 6) (mockup) & 7) (implementation of tab in the lobby) 2011-05-31 20:57:18+0000 <antoviaque> that cuts this part in 3 isolated tasks 2011-05-31 20:57:21+0000 <dachary> the mockup should also include an initial invite to the player to play solo games to understand the game 2011-05-31 20:57:45+0000 <antoviaque> that's the tutorial part : ) 2011-05-31 20:57:53+0000 <dachary> IIRC charles suggested that it's shown to the player who never played before 2011-05-31 20:58:09+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: it's borderline ;-) 2011-05-31 20:58:13+0000 <antoviaque> we'll need to get the selection right before putting it in front of a first time player imho 2011-05-31 20:58:39+0000 <antoviaque> otherwise I fear he would be even more confused : ) 2011-05-31 20:58:42+0000 <dachary> ok 2011-05-31 21:04:49+0000 <antoviaque> Updated http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/70 with the list of individual tickets and the log - I'll create the individual tickets 2011-05-31 21:05:03+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: blanchard: thanks : ) 2011-05-31 21:05:03+0000 <dachary> k 2011-05-31 21:05:10+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: thanks 2011-05-31 21:23:28+0000 antoviaque (antoviaque) is now online 2011-05-31 21:29:42+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: regarding the facebook invitation patches, could you tell me for sure that the patches pending review are consistent ? The last time I checked it was most confusing and you have more knowledge of the process than I do. 2011-05-31 21:29:54+0000 <dachary> "the process" => "how it was developped and evolved" 2011-05-31 21:30:53+0000 <antoviaque> what was confusing? 2011-05-31 21:31:42+0000 <dachary> There are multiple tickets related to it, it's unclear to me if they are consistent and can be applied consistently. 2011-05-31 21:32:23+0000 <antoviaque> the goal is that you can find stuff there that is handy for you to review, so let's see if we can improve that 2011-05-31 21:32:27+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/16 and other rogerio patches are becoming difficult to work with because they relate to images that need to be collected manually. Is there any way he can use gitorious / github ? 2011-05-31 21:33:55+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: definitely - you want me to ask him? I don't think it would be an issue 2011-05-31 21:34:05+0000 <dachary> http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/22 http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/6 http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/23 are related. I have a strong feeling that if I try to apply them I'll run into troubles. 2011-05-31 21:34:06+0000 <antoviaque> you mean for the current patches? 2011-05-31 21:34:31+0000 <dachary> antoviaque: I mean for http://tickets.farsides.com/issues/16 a public git repository is a must 2011-05-31 21:35:09+0000 <dachary> I think it would also make the recollection of the fb related patches consistent where it looks like a very hazardous task at the moment ;-) 2011-05-31 21:35:24+0000 <antoviaque> ok - I can explain him the rebase part 2011-05-31 21:35:53+0000 <antoviaque> do you want to ask him directly, and I answer his questions? 2011-05-31 21:36:35+0000 <dachary> I would appreciate if you do. It would take me more time to explain than to manually integrate the work. 2011-05-31 21:37:25+0000 romulo (romulo) is now online 2011-05-31 21:38:24+0000 <antoviaque> ok 2011-05-31 21:38:29+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, ping =] 2011-05-31 21:38:34+0000 <antoviaque> hi romulo : ) 2011-05-31 21:39:17+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, "I think you were able to see that together in the chat, right?" -> what does it mean? 2011-05-31 21:39:47+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: so to make it easier for you, it's best to have a gitorious branch up to date with your repository, with the pending patches queued on top of the head? 2011-05-31 21:40:17+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: I was just wondering if you had been able to discuss this together afterwards, as I didn't see an answer to your question 2011-05-31 21:40:24+0000 <antoviaque> just to know if you had had the support you needed 2011-05-31 21:40:46+0000 <romulo> i havent talked to tartarugafeliz about the font sizes, since changing from pt to px Just Works (TM) 2011-05-31 21:40:50+0000 <romulo> but i should 2011-05-31 21:40:51+0000 <romulo> :P 2011-05-31 21:41:09+0000 <antoviaque> dachary: and then you just automatically mark the tickets as merged when the corresponding commits appear on your repository 2011-05-31 21:41:24+0000 <antoviaque> (which is done automatically by redmine) 2011-05-31 21:41:25+0000 rogerio_ (rogerio_) is now online 2011-05-31 21:41:53+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, should i assign myself to another ticket today? :P 2011-05-31 21:41:58+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: yep, I think it was just that typo : ) 2011-05-31 21:42:00+0000 <romulo> or discuss and implement 65? 2011-05-31 21:42:27+0000 <romulo> i mean, finish the implementation 2011-05-31 21:42:44+0000 * dachary sitting confortably to enjoy reading romulo patch 2011-05-31 21:42:46+0000 <romulo> i guess the plugin system will only change the way functions are called, not their behavior at all 2011-05-31 21:43:05+0000 <dachary> romulo: I think so to 2011-05-31 21:43:07+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: do you have enough information about the plugin system to be able to adapt #65? 2011-05-31 21:43:17+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, nop 2011-05-31 21:43:25+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, but i can implement functionality 2011-05-31 21:43:31+0000 <romulo> and wait for plugin system to implement calls 2011-05-31 21:43:52+0000 <romulo> also dachary i changed a bit my last patch, so its more safer and cleaner now :D 2011-05-31 21:43:56+0000 <romulo> need to commit and resubmit 2011-05-31 21:46:42+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: what would you prefer? do the maximum on #65 or take on a new task? 2011-05-31 21:50:55+0000 <dachary> romulo: I'm confused 2011-05-31 21:51:09+0000 <dachary> http://tickets.farsides.com/attachments/57/final_notifier.patch shows patches to b/cardstories/notifier.py 2011-05-31 21:51:14+0000 <dachary> although it's a new file 2011-05-31 21:51:22+0000 <dachary> how is that possible ? 2011-05-31 21:51:36+0000 <romulo> antoviaque, do the maximum on 65 2011-05-31 21:51:46+0000 <antoviaque> then deal : ) 2011-05-31 21:52:10+0000 <romulo> dachary, i have no idea, like i told you, i just did git format-patch --binary --stdout > final_notifier.patch 2011-05-31 21:52:17+0000 <romulo> dachary, let me prepare the update of this patch 2011-05-31 21:52:25+0000 <romulo> few have changed, but its important 2011-05-31 21:52:53+0000 <dachary> either you provide a clean patch or I can work with multiple commits if you have a publicly available git mirror 2011-05-31 21:53:05+0000 <dachary> like antoviaque suggested 2011-05-31 21:53:19+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: you should maintain a gitorious repository with a clean set of changes, it would be easier 2011-05-31 21:53:26+0000 <antoviaque> yep : ) 2011-05-31 21:53:55+0000 <antoviaque> made things a lot easier when I started using it 2011-05-31 21:53:58+0000 <romulo> dachary, will clone my repo in gitorious 2011-05-31 21:54:22+0000 <romulo> easier 2011-05-31 21:54:24+0000 <antoviaque> romulo: make sure you rebase against loic's repo before 2011-05-31 21:54:27+0000 <dachary> k 2011-05-31 21:54:41+0000 <romulo> im basing from http://cardstori.es/cardstories.git -> is that loic's ? 2011-05-31 21:54:45+0000 <antoviaque> yep 2011-05-31 21:54:54+0000 <romulo> ok then 2011-05-31 21:55:00+0000 <romulo> its always updated when i do patches 2011-05-31 21:55:12+0000 <romulo> i always fetch() and rebase() before sending patches 2011-05-31 21:55:15+0000 <dachary> romulo: yes 2011-05-31 21:55:29+0000 <antoviaque> perfect then - it should be smoother than attaching patches 2011-05-31 21:56:01+0000 <romulo> yeah 2011-05-31 21:56:12+0000 <romulo> will do that in a few 2011-05-31 21:56:26+0000 <romulo> family calling me to eat 2011-05-31 21:56:32+0000 <romulo> and they are in bloodlust :P 2011-05-31 21:56:35+0000 <dachary> :-d 2011-05-31 21:56:50+0000 <antoviaque> good diner : ) 2011-05-31 21:56:56+0000 <dachary> I'll change In Progress 2011-05-31 21:58:16+0000 <romulo> brbs 2011-05-31 22:47:49+0000 <romulo> back 2011-05-31 22:47:57+0000 <romulo> making commit and then cloning on gitorious 2011-05-31 23:30:47+0000 <romulo> just pushed to gitorious 2011-05-31 23:30:54+0000 <romulo> also updated the bug to ready to review again. 2011-05-31 23:31:01+0000 <romulo> working on #65
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