Dear Taco, Thank you for this: I hope you will not mind me continuing since this matter of theorbo sizes still seems to be an area of misunderstanding. Incidentally, I'd be interested to know what I said which is 'not very logical' as you put it. . I raised the question of the tiorbino since you seemed to mention it as an example of a small theorbo which had both upper courses at the lower octave without seeming to realise that the tiorbino is tuned an octave higher than the theorbo thus obliging both upper courses to be lowered the octave.
The small French theorbo developed for solo pieces (in D tuning - re Talbot for 'les pieces') is tuned a fourth higher than the common A theorbo tuning - are you recommending that all these small theorboes (say, around 76cm fingered string length) should be tuned like this rather than in a nominal A (or G) with just the first course an octave down? Regarding solo theorbo music: Mathias Roesel has quite rightly already pointed out that the de Saizeny Ms requires a theorbo in nominal A; as does, I might also add, the fine Ms Paris BN B1575 containing 101 folios of music for solo theorbo. Thus a theorbo in nominal D, as you seem to advocate, isn't specified for this solo music. MH From: Taco Walstra <[email protected]> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for theorbo To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[email protected]>, "'baroque Lutelist'" <[email protected]> Date: Thursday, 11 August, 2011, 12:17 On 08/11/2011 12:24 PM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: > > > There are non-English sources which describe theorbos with only the > first course an octave down - see the late Bob Spencer's paper in Early > Music: still probably the best summary of the instrument and its > tuning. Yes I know that excellent article. But you were recommending something which is not very logical for somebody who starts playing theorbo and only solomusic... > > The tiorbino is tuned an octave higher than the tiorba so naturally the > string stress on the second course would exceed breaking stress if not > lowered the octave. Perhaps to be a bit more clear: I didn't recommend tuning up the second course. > > What/where are these small theorbos tuned in Dm? Or are you thinking > that mid/late 18th century 13 course Dm lutes with an extension for 5 > doubled bass courses should be called theorbos? true. I should have written d instead of dm. Dm normally gives the impression that a baroque lute tuning is meant, but that's something different. I was speaking on a theorbe des pieces which was tuned a quarter higher than his big brother and of course 2 reentrant strings. taco From: Martyn Hodgson <[1][email protected]> Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for theorbo To: "Taco Walstra" <[2][email protected]> Date: Thursday, 11 August, 2011, 11:16 There are non-English sources which describe theorbos with only the first course an octave down - see the late Bob Spencer's paper in Early Music: still probably the best summary of the instrument and its tuning. The tiorbino is tuned an octave higher than the tiorba so naturally the string stress on the second course would exceed breaking stress if not lowered the octave. What/where are these small theorbos tuned in Dm? Or are you thinking that mid/late 18th century 13 course Dm lutes with an extension for 5 doubled bass courses should be called theorbos? I presume a theorbo is generally acquired to play continuo. However if you only intend to play the relatively few solos extant then a small theorbo of this size with both top courses an octave down would indeed be following a known historical practise (Talbot Ms 'pour pieces') but, of course, in this case it would be pitched a fourth higher (re Talbot) in a nominal d - not the usual A. MH From: Taco Walstra <[3][email protected]> Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for theorbo To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[4][email protected]>, "lute net" <[5][email protected]> Date: Thursday, 11 August, 2011, 8:57 Playing close to the bridge is a story in itself. It's not proved that it was common practice on theorbo. It's logical however, but playing with nails was perhaps also used, or both. What you call "historical practice... only lower the first course..." was the tuning used on an english theorbo, not the "standard" theorbo. "Historical practice" was tuning small theorbos in dm, although even this is not very certain (it's mostly based on a few examples, like the pieces by visee which exist in staff notation and theorbo tablature). Even the small tiorbino usied in the italian Castaldi music has the 2 top course reentrant, if I remember well. But what is the problem with the second course? As you can see in the list by David he uses 0.78 mm. that's not 0.36 or whatever. with archlutes in G you encounter such problems, not theorbos. If you use a theorbo only for continuo playing, your advice can be a good idea, but I assume that David Smith will surely like to play Visee and other beautiful solomusic, which is problematic when you do this. Taco On 08/11/2011 09:30 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: Much depends on your technique and whether you play close to the bridge (as the Old Ones generally seemed to have done) or up to the rose. However whatever tension you decide upon, with such a small instrument why don't you follow historical practice and only lower the first course an octave? The stress of the second course at such a short string length (at , say, A 415) is well below breaking stress. > MH -- -- References 1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
