Just to explain:
When I said roped strings were dull compared to plain gut I was talking
only about relatively thin strings, say .80-.90mm.
For the KF strings, the high tensions which many people want to use will
not work because the thicker KF strings are really too thick and stiff
to work. On the 11th course of an 11c lute I would use nothing larger
than 1.50mm (actual diameter). I'm using .95 for the 6th course.
Another factor with KF strings is the importance of thinning them where
they go through the bridge and wrap over themselves in front of the
bridge. If you don't do this, the sound will be dull and you will
probably get problems with the strings buzzing against the top of the
bridge.
Martin
On 03/02/2017 11:39, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
Mimmo,
You experience is that a roped string is duller than a plain gut? I have the
contrary. Maybe it is necessary to know how the roped string was done. Mine is
a roped string made with two fresh 'brins' twisted like as rope and then
polished. In practice our Venices.
Yes, I use your Venice roped strings and can confirm this. They are brighter
than plain gut
I would like to buy some KF strings just to do a comparation:
I have both KFs and your CDs and compared them side to side. KFs have shorter
sustain, are more percussive and …slightly duller sound IMO. KFs work well till
11th course on BQL. I don’t like them on diapasons. CDs have stronger
fundamental, longer sustain (much longer than guts) and work very well on
diapasons, however their elasticity make them work only on instruments with
higher than normal action and wide string spacing. Also tuning is not ideal.
Heck, guys, what to do? first or second option?
At present the second option is the winner!
Now, the question is what is your goal in making CD strings. If you aim at
finding a substitute for gut strings than stiffer strings would be better. I am
used to gut basses so I like short sustain and a little bit stiffer string. If
someone played only overwounds he/she would probably prefer longer sustain. So
the answer to your question will depend on whom you’ll ask.
All in all there is no one answer to this question, and probably you would have
to take into consideration your business strategy.
Best
Ciao
Jaroslaw
ciao to all
Mimmo
-----Messaggio originale----- From: Martin Shepherd
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 10:22 AM
To: Mimmo Peruffo ; Matthew Daillie
Cc: Arto Wikla ; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
Thanks, Mimmo.
I agree absolutely that there is no need to make versions of these
strings thinner than .80mm.
The issue of damping is perhaps the one which worries me most. In the
case of roped strings, they sound duller than a plain gut string of the
same size, presumably because of internal friction between the strands
of the rope. In the case of rubber strings (sorry!) what worries me is
that some damping/absorption of energy is happening as the string
stretches and contracts with each vibration. The KF fluorocarbon
strings, being solid and stiff, have neither of these damping effects.
I can imagine that a string which was "floppy" but not especially
elastic would work well.
I hope that a lower rubber content would allow the strings to slide
better over the nut, which would also be a welcome characteristic.
Best to all,
Martin
On 03/02/2017 10:09, Mimmo Peruffo wrote:
Thank you very much about all these helpfull suggestions, guys.
actually the gauges from 80 CD till 105CD are made half loaded using also a
stiffer elastomer. This combination is perfect fo the tonl trasiction betweenj
pure gut/nylon/Nylgut to a wound strings, KF or CDs etc etc.
I call this range of gauges simply as Meanes. they are still CD types however.
In practice they are around the 5th course of renaissance & d minor Lutes.
I have intentionally exluded the 4th courses because make not sense at all to
use a denser strings on it. The 80 CD is just done for those that are curious.
well, I done the very first prototypes (than cannot be perfect) and sent out to
some friends to hear their opinions: of course, some of them were uneven.
Despite that I had very good reports.
Some installed them also like octaves (!): I never realized that additional
option. However, I do not raccomend. Octaves normally can works at higher
working index than a 5 th course; so they can breack.
said that, I agree with you Matthew. thanks
Martin, a stiffer string has an higher elasticity modulus so the performances
are less good than those of an equivalent string with more elasticity. You
probably reffers to the KF strings. However there are others parameters at work
here, for example the inner damping effect is one of them, and it is not
related to the elasticity modulus. This explain for example why a special kind
of nylon, whose density is far less than fluorocarbon sound like this one. It
was a huge surprise to me!
I am thinking that you guys prefer the second option. To me is even better, it
help to solve some problem becausew they sometime stick on the nut slots/
grooves.
False strings? yes, with prototypes can happen. when one start with the
ufficial production an extruder plant work exatly in the same even way. The
first strings are the waste and then the rest are done exactly in the same way.
well, I am leaving italy to London so I have not time to re start; I will do
some samples both for meanes and basses just to see if they actually works in
the proper way
Be patient again; i cannot be too fast here.
Mimmo
-----Messaggio originale----- From: Martin Shepherd
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 9:35 AM
To: Matthew Daillie ; Mimmo Peruffo
Cc: Arto Wikla ; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
Tout à fait d'accord, Matthew.
I would add that "trueness" is not just a question of intonation when
notes are fretted. A false string never sounds in tune even as an open
string, and the pattern of vibration makes it buzz against the frets.
If your string heights are high enough that this isn't a problem,
they're too high.
I don't know whether the samples I had from Mimmo some time ago are the
same as the current production, but I thought they were too elastic. He
did say he was going to make a less elastic version for the thinner
strings, but I don't know whether he's implemented this idea or not (can
you tell us, Mimmo?). I'm slightly puzzled by the suggestion that the
less elastic version would have a duller or darker sound, I would almost
expect the opposite - as a comparison, the KF strings are very stiff but
sound bright.
It would be such a shame if after all his efforts we end up with a
string which is not as good as the old loaded gut. Actually the new
string needs to be better than that in terms of trueness.
Best wishes to all,
Martin
On 03/02/2017 09:06, Matthew Daillie wrote:
Dear Mimmo,
In my opinion there are two factors which need to be given priority even before
judging the sound of a string. Firstly it has to be true (with no problems of
intonation going up the fingerboard for stopped strings) and secondly it has to
be playable: on a well-made and well set up lute, it must not catch on the nut,
buzz, hit a neighbouring string, hit against the fingerboard, or cause any
other extraneous noises. If a string has the potential to sound wonderful but
does not meet these two criteria, then it is of no use whatsoever.
Once that is established, obviously players want a string with a full-bodied
and stable tone, enough sustain to make voice-leading a pleasure and the
instrument to sing to the best of its ability and sufficient power to provide
convincing projection and resonance.
Personally I am looking for a warm and sweet tone with precise fundamentals and
enough overtones to make the timbre rich and variable.
Oh dear, that does sound like a holy grail doesn't it?
Fingers crossed!
Best
Matthew
On Feb 3, 2017, at 8:29, Mimmo Peruffo <mperu...@aquilacorde.com> wrote:
Thank you for the suggestion Arto.
Unfortunately i cannot do it
I already image how confuse the thing will be with the customers.
This mean the eford to mannage twice products and honestly I do not
like to add cofusion in the factory and with customers already stressed
by me!
I should do a choice and in fast time: is it better a more elastic
string like these are (whith problems related to the fact that maybe
stretch tooo much and that the sound is too bright) or it is better to
switch to a less elastic plastic support with the advantage that it
stretch less, the sound is darker and with less sustain?
Hard to do the choice: both solutions are ok; i already tried the
second option that is similar to the loaded gut strings
Even Anthony Bailes suggested me the second option.
Strings or not to strings? this is the question
ah ah
(my poor english at work)
Ciao
Mimmo
ps
which are your suggestion guys?
-----Messaggio originale-----
From: Arto Wikla
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:46 PM
To: Mimmo Peruffo ; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
Dear Mimmo,
if you decide to make the loaded nylgut strings (CD) less elastic, I
hope (and wish and urge ;-) ) that you keep also the original elastic
version in your repertoire! They work exceptionally well on my Harz
arclute, great stuff.
And big thanks for your invaluable work!
Arto
On 02/02/17 14:03, Mimmo Peruffo wrote:
Well, seeing this post I have the idea to switch to these stiffer
ones.
at the end of the day they are closer to those loaded strings made of
gut.
I will do some samples in advance.
Mimmo
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