> Hi Frank, Thanks for the complete answers to my questions. I went through the SFI Compost Digest file to try and summarize the controversy for my state organic department head who had never heard of it before. You have studied this a lot and you have a definite opinion about it. I want to answer a few things in your email.
I wrote: "As I understand it, Elaine says that if the pH in your compost tea is above 5.5 - 6.3 that you won't have any E. coli either. What have I missed?" You wrote: "I don't know. Can you recall where Elaine said this? pH > 6.3 = No E. coli in tea?"... ...I have heard Elaine say that if dissolved oxygen (DO) stays above 5.5 and a full foodweb is present in the compost/vermicompost, E. coli will be eliminated; she did a recent trial using partially processed vermicompost and got this result. She WAS talking about oxygen levels, not pH and she said 5.5-6 ppm. You wrote: > 'One swallow doesn't make it spring', however, and what needs to happen is > for other researchers to verify and confirm Elaine's results until we can > have confidence that what she asserts will be always true, is in fact always > true > ��� > Now, the above are not a bad set of composting standards, to be sure. (The > usual recommendation for turning composts is five turnings within the first > fifteen days, with temps returning quickly to the required range between > turnings, by the way.) But they are designed to get fecal coliforms to less > than 1000 MPN/g, not E. coli to less than 3 CFU, as I understand it, which > means you still need to test." Frank, I'm sure testing compost is a good idea,, but will the testing be possible financially for some of us, whether from local water district or from a lab on the net? How can we test our whole huge compost pile? Will a test from the middle of the pile be representative and satisfy the requirement for testing? Do I need an oxygen-testing instrument for my small compost tea operation? What about Elaine's smell test? Would that be acceptable for a small farm? What about the idea that in a good aerobic tea with the proper nutrients, the E. coli will be killed by the good organisms? What about Will's idea that holism being the most important consideration? How do we keep our good fuzzy feelings about what we're doing if we're thinking about pathogens all the time? Don't laugh. > You wrote: > Until a thorough survey of organic, biodynamic, and conventional farms is > done, with special attention to the issue of all forage versus grain > supplemented feeding, it would be best to assume some presence of 0157, and > act accordingly. We don't have a cow. We have a hard time finding cow manure at all or any kind of manure that doesn't have antibiotics in it. All hay here is certified weed free and sprayed with herbicide. We have to search and search for organic hay. I live on top of a mountain and have enough acreage to have a cow, but it's mostly in forest and the ground just isn't suitable for pasture. We would have to cut down a lot of trees and it would take a long time to grow a pasture. We like it our meadow wild, anyway. In the winter, we have had as much as 22 cumulative feet of snow and cows can't live outside. They have to be in a barn and be fed hay. We use CT on our garden and it makes things grow better and go through drought periods better. I don't like the idea that I could possibly lose my certified organic status by using CT. We need it. Elaine has a really high class operation going at Soil Foodweb, Inc. She is doing a service for farmers and landscapers and she is a really nifty lecturer. I just sat through a boring lecture by a university microbiologist and hers are orders and orders of magnitude better. She has reached a lot of people. I don't like to see Will and Vicky throw aspersions at what she is doing or the USDA making it harder for her rather than supporting her work. I know she can take care of herself, but she has a right to lobby NOSB about their rule, especially since she wasn't invited to the discussion before they made the decision. You said that yourself. What is your background, Frank? You haven't given us a resume yet. Can you supply pictures of testing instruments for compost tea? I've been lurking on the Compost tea list/serve because I don't have any experience with brewers except the most basic kind. I can't tell an MPM/g from a CFU. Best, Merla > >
