Merla wrote: > > Frank, I can't get <www.woodsend.org/microbia.pdf>.
Sorry, they just reorganized their website, the article is now at: http://www.woodsend.org/pdf-files/microbia.pdf You need Adobe Acrobat Reader to read .pdf files. It is available free to download at http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readermain.html Is this the company you > recommend to test compost? It is certainly one of the best in the US. > Here I am worrying whether the one of 4 cows on a non-commercial ranch in a > small town could have E. coli 0157 and the article that you cite from which the > above excerpt comes says that only 1-2% of cattle in a feedlot/slaughter > situation have it. Consciousness always lags behind reality. Newer surveys, which I cited sources for, indicate the figure at 30%, with summer spikes up to 80%. That's for feedlot cattle, to be sure. http://www.fass.org/fass01/pdfs/Callaway.pdf > > As I understand it, Elaine says that if the pH in your compost tea is above 5.5 > - 6.3 that you won't have any E. coli either. What have I missed? I don't know. Can you recall where Elaine said this? pH > 6.3 = No E. coli in tea? Alkaline stabilization is a process used in treating sludges. It requires pH elevation to 12 for periods of between 2 hours (Class B) and 72 hours (Class A). One of the listed disadvantages of this method is: "There is a potential for pathogen regrowth if the pH of the material drops below 9.5 during storage. (EPA, 1992)" www.epa.gov/owm/mtb/alkaline_stabilization.pdf I have heard Elaine say that if dissolved oxygen (DO) stays above 5.5 and a full foodweb is present in the compost/vermicompost, E. coli will be eliminated; she did a recent trial using partially processed vermicompost and got this result. 'One swallow doesn't make it spring', however, and what needs to happen is for other researchers to verify and confirm Elaine's results until we can have confidence that what she asserts will be always true, is in fact always true. What the Bess study purports to do is falsify Elaine's assertion. Bess took 'good enough' compost that had met process standards, put it in a Growing Solutions 25 brewer, measured DO levels throughout, and was able to grow E. coli when simple sugars were added to the mix, under repeated trials. Elaine's definition of how to make good compost is not, in itself, adequate to assure that tea quality compost is always made. From the Compost Tea Manual, 3rd edition, page 10: "Temperature must exceed 135 F (57 C) for at least 3 days, which means the pile temperature should be maintained above that for 8-15 days, with turning, to make sure that everything in the pile reached temperature for long enough. The temperature should not, however, exceed 155-160 F (68-71 C) and the oxygen level should not drop below 12 to 15% [.......] If compost gets too hot, does not heat enough, or becomes anaerobic, the set of organisms in the compost is not desirable. If you use poor compost, the tea will not contain the desired set of organisms." Now, the above are not a bad set of composting standards, to be sure. (The usual recommendation for turning composts is five turnings within the first fifteen days, with temps returning quickly to the required range between turnings, by the way.) But they are designed to get fecal coliforms to less than 1000 MPN/g, not E. coli to less than 3 CFU, as I understand it, which means you still need to test. Another problem is that: "Compost for compost tea needs to be SLIGHTLY IMMATURE! That means, a little bit of temperature is a good thing----about 5- 10 degrees above ambient is the desired range." The maturation phase of composting is the final defense against pathogens; the development of the mesophilic microflora finishes off any remaining pathogens while protecting the pile against reinoculation (birds, wild animals, other vectors). Using compost before this phase is complete to make tea increases the risk that some surviving pathogens might regrow, which means it is all the more critical to be sure that the compost has none. > > What I'm getting at, Frank, is what are the odds of my having 0157 in my CT? > I'm just trying to get some perspective on this. The trouble is that no matter > how low the odds, the rule still prohibits me from using compost tea if I'm > certified organic. Until a thorough survey of organic, biodynamic, and conventional farms is done, with special attention to the issue of all forage versus grain supplemented feeding, it would be best to assume some presence of 0157, and act accordingly. Here is a good article by Dr David Patriquin on the subject: http://www.cog.ca/efgsummer2000.htm#ecoli A quote for Hugh, and you, and you, and you: "E.coli 0157 on the farm Industrialized farming practices are considered to be a factor contributing to increased levels of food borne illness associated with zoonotics (2, 12). Regardless, it is safest to assume that most of these organisms, including 0157 are everywhere including organic farms. According to Dr. Dale Hancock of Washington State University, " E. coli 0157 is widespread in nature, occurring naturally and sporadically in the gastrointestinal flora of humans, cattle, deer, sheep, dogs, horses, birds, and perhaps other species." (13 ) The specific routes by which 0157 arrives on a farm are not known although birds, deer, other wild animals and livestock brought in from other farms are suspected (14). Ruminants appear to be the primary reservoir. " > > Thanks, > > Merla You're welcome, Frank Teuton
