I like the upfront "things you need to know". Aside: we need standard ways to reference NuVoc terms. Plus tools to help wiki authors apply them. Anybody here use KM – Keyboard Maestro?
I'm off to a bad start with: "tacit code may result in run-on sentences". I need an example to grasp its meaning. Perhaps I simply don't know what run-on means; or can possibly mean in connection with (J) sentences. Perhaps it all simply needs more "show-not-tell". I'm going to translate the professorial English to babytalk. My non-re-entrant brain can only do babytalk when struggling with a new problem domain. A job for next week now, I fear. That said, and trying to think like a noob, this page is clearly a useful coding tip with a lot of potential for "my" code. More of such things required. Needs to be linked from all quarters. Ian On Wed, 24 Nov 2021 at 03:12, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > Ok, I've posted a wiki draft visible at > https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Tacit_Valued_Explicit_Definitions > > It has plenty of room for improvement, if we can figure out how to > express those improvements. > > Thanks, > > -- > Raul > > On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 2:47 PM Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Personally, I think that the dissect tool does a good job of exposing > > to the user how a tacit verb functions. > > > > More generally, one of the first things I reach for, when trying to > > understand a coding concept, is a relevant example. And, dissect helps > > me work through examples. > > > > And, at some point, we have to understand that propellerheads can and > > do make useful contributions. They are not our entire audience, but > > trying to exclude them strikes me as foolish. > > > > And, on the flip side, having some good targets to absorb random > > pushback is probably a good thing. There's always going to be that > > someone who is going to push back and that's something we need to > > somehow cope with. > > > > And... that said... I guess I should put up a draft of this page so we > > can argue about its details and shortcomings. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- > > Raul > > > > On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 2:02 PM Ian Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Really now: isn't that for J experts only? > > > > > > No – and yes. > > > ++ No because I think that a verb definition that reads explicit but > acts > > > tacit has enormous appeal for a J learner. > > > ++ Yes because when I played around with it, it defied all my > reasonable > > > (??) attempts to generalize it. So it's stuff for experts only: far > more > > > expert experts than me. > > > > > > There is a sizeable suppressed need for a reliable tool doing explicit > <--> > > > tacit. > > > Currently all we offer is (13 :) and tte, both of which usually bail > out > > > like Bugs Bunny's autopilot, plus a ragbag of tricks and tips of the > > > how-to-lose-weight-and be-rich-and-happy kind. How about a "dissect" > for > > > verbs instead of nouns? > > > > > > Learners want science (or at least technology) – and we give them > alchemy > > > (or at least cookery). If I had a black chip to gamble on helping J > shake > > > off its propeller-headed image, here's the square I'd plonk it down on. > > > > > > End of rant. (I'm working on that post for Chat.) > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 at 03:41, Henry Rich <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Good point. > > > > > > > > I agree that tacit programming is best left as an advanced topic. > > > > > > > > What we have here is an explicit adverb that produces a desired verb > > > > result. Most users wouldn't want it - they would want a verb. They > can > > > > do that easily enough. > > > > > > > > Raul has shown an elegant way to create an adverb that is readable > as an > > > > explicit entity but performs like a tacit entity. Really now: isn't > > > > that for J experts only? > > > > > > > > Henry Rich > > > > > > > > On 11/22/2021 8:21 PM, Ian Clark wrote: > > > > >> I like that title. > > > > > I like it too – as the title of an essay communicated between J > experts > > > > > which tersely sums up its contents. > > > > > But, as the Japanese say: I'm about to utter a rude thing… > > > > > > > > > > I think the very word "tacit" should be banned from all material > likely > > > > to > > > > > be viewed by J newcomers. > > > > > Specifically, everything in NuVoc above the subheading: "More > > > > Information". > > > > > > > > > > There are two uses of the word "tacit" which I'd wholeheartedly > endorse: > > > > > ++ J promotes itself tacitly. > > > > > ++ There is tacit acceptance of J's status as Information > Technology's > > > > > number one mystery religion. > > > > > > > > > > I guess I'm in the minority over this issue: a minority of one. > I'm going > > > > > over to Chat to expand on my views on the matter. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 at 15:11, Henry Rich <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> I like that title. > > > > >> > > > > >> Henry Rich > > > > >> > > > > >> On 11/22/2021 8:56 AM, Raul Miller wrote: > > > > >>> Hmm... > > > > >>> > > > > >>> One issue here is that the specific example in this thread was > > > > >>> "pretty" because of two arbitrary obstacles: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> (1) email line wrapping, and > > > > >>> > > > > >>> (2) it was an ad-hoc cd call with a large cd signature. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> In other words, there's a niche for this kind of thing, but > outside of > > > > >>> email exchanges there's less pressure to use this technique. > And, it's > > > > >>> worth thinking about alternative examples (like maybe tacit > > > > >>> expressions which contain an agenda with a large gerund). > > > > >>> > > > > >>> So, anyways, ... I've been trying to come up with some better > examples > > > > >>> > > > > >>> But turning this into a wiki page raises another issue: what > would be > > > > >>> a good name for that wiki page? Would "Tacit Valued Explicit > > > > >>> Definitions" be sufficiently evocative? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Thanks, > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> -- > > > > >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > > > > >> https://www.avg.com > > > > >> > > > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > >> > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > > > > https://www.avg.com > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
