I think we need to get off this idea of thinking of _. as
'not a number'.  That's IEEE talk, not J.  IEEE supports a
whole family of NaNs, but that's immaterial to J.

In J, the definition is enigmatic:

   The indeterminate _. results from expressions such as _-_
  (infinity minus infinity) and from expressions (such as 3+_.)
  in which an indeterminate argument occurs. 
  
but it seems clear to me that _. represents 'an unknown number',
not 'a non-number'.  As such, we can see some of the rules it
obeys in 602:

   _. ^ 0
1

(correct in my opinion)

   0 * _.
0

(again correct in my opinion)

   0 ^ _.
0

(incorrect in my opinion, since 0 ^ 0 is 1  and 0 ^ _1 is _)

   _ >: _.
0

(incorrect IMO - this is what we have been talking about)

Henry Rich

PS.   

   _. ^ _.
|limit error

I wonder what's happening there?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kip Murray
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:21 AM
> To: Beta forum
> Subject: RE: [Jbeta] Another incompatibility: _ >. _. WAS: _ <. _.
> 
> I think _. as an answer signals the question didn't make 
> sense.  As _. 
> is _not a number_ (it could be Lucciano Pavarotti's high C), 
> operations 
> like x + _. and x >. _. are undefined.  Another user could be 
> depending 
> on _. as a signal the operation was undefined.
> 
> Of course, depending on _. for anything can be questioned, 
> and you can 
> ask why _ , which also is not a number, gets special treatment.  The 
> difference is, we know what rules _ obeys.  See for example 
> The Extended 
> Real Number System, Section 1.23 of Walter Rudin's Principles of 
> Mathematical Analysis, Third Edition.
> 
> Kip Murray
> 
> On Thu, 7 Feb 2008, Henry Rich wrote:
> 
>   (Note that the subject of the original message contained
>   a typo <. for >., though the text was correct.)
>   
>   I don't see the logic. x+_.
>   is _. because if you don't know what _. is, you don't
>   know the result, even if x is _  .  But with _ >. _. 
>   you know the result, no matter what _. is: _ >. x
>   is _ for all x.  So _ would be a reasonable answer.
>   
>   You said earlier that _. <: _  should produce 1,
>   which seems to conform to my argument above.  If
>   _. is recognized as less-or-equal _, I think it
>   needs to follow that _. >. _ is _    .
>   
>   The case that got me into this _. mess was
>   
>   1 2 3 _ I. _.
>   
>   where I had a list that I thought I had terminated with a
>   high value, but I found that _. is higher yet.  It
>   would simplify analysis and description if _. were
>   consistently recognized as not being bigger than _   .
>   
>   Henry Rich
>   
>   > -----Original Message-----
>   > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>   > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roger Hui
>   > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 10:45 PM
>   > To: Beta forum
>   > Subject: Re: [Jbeta] Another incompatibility: _ <. _.
>   > 
>   > The answer should be _. for the same reason that x+_. 
> should be _. .
>   > That is, for all numeric atoms x, _. should be the answer for
>   > 
>   >    x  +  _.
>   >    x  >. _.
>   >    x  <. _.
>   >    _. +  x
>   >    _. >. x
>   >    _. <. x
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: Henry Rich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   > Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2008 6:55
>   > Subject: [Jbeta] Another incompatibility: _ <. _.
>   > To: 'Beta forum' <[email protected]>
>   > 
>   > > I also just got bit by
>   > > 
>   > >    _ >. _.
>   > > _.
>   > > 
>   > > This gave _ in 601.  And in 602,
>   > > 
>   > >    _. >. _
>   > > _ 
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > I think both results should be _
>   > 
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>   
>   
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>   
> 
> Kip Murray
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.math.uh.edu/~km
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