Uhm... Please, can you explain "Hard to tell what's going in and what's coming out"?
On 10 May 2010 09:45, Luke Frisken <[email protected]> wrote: > Don't you think it's a little hard to tell what's going into the > material and what's coming out with that suggestion? > > On 5/10/10, Damir Prebeg <[email protected]> wrote: > > I've started this topic so It's would be rude from me not to suggest > > something. First of all I like Bassam suggestion about nodes, here is my > > suggestion how this should look. > > > > http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=3202 > > > > I think image is pretty much self explanatory but if someone need more > > detailed description I will send it. > > > > On top of this, I also like Doug's proposition for sockets witch could be > > applied for direct assignment of image/tex compund/some-other-node-type > to > > Diffuse, Transparency or what ever... > > > > Workflow could be like this: > > > > I wish to assign some texture (node) to Diffuse channel. > > > > I click on a button beside Difuse color and that shows me drop-down > > selector. In that drop-down I have scrollable list of available node > types > > with ability to launch file selector and node editor (Ctrl+click on buton > > that shows that drop-down would launch node editor automatically after > some > > imaga/node is selected) > > > > > > On 9 May 2010 07:43, Doug Ollivier <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Hi All, > >> > >> Just curious what the next step is to see if this goes anywhere. Is > >> it...? > >> > >> 1) Have this topic raised at next meeting, to work out if it is > >> something worth exploring from a user?software structure stand-point > >> 2) Create a UI proposal exploring the issue and proposing solutions? and > >> then discussing this at a meeting? > >> > >> I assume that because the topic went quiet, that there was agreement (or > >> not disagreement) with the idea of a Socket type influence system. > >> > >> Cheers. > >> > >> Doug > >> > >> On 30/04/2010 1:52 p.m., Doug Ollivier wrote: > >> > Awesome, was curious how light-wave did it. > >> > > >> > They are all seeming relatively similar with minor differences in > >> approach. > >> > > >> > Any wild cards out there from strange softwares etc? > >> > > >> > On 30/04/2010 1:40 p.m., Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.com wrote: > >> > > >> >> Ive suggested this type of texture managing in the past inspired on > >> >> Lightwave where you can assign a texture or a texture stack to each > >> >> value > >> >> > >> >> Material properties with a T icon to launch texture stack > >> >> > >> >> http://www.except.nl/lightwave/hdr/images/Surface_notgood_sm.png > >> >> > >> >> Texture Stack > >> >> > >> >> > >> > http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/LightwaveTuts/LWPacks/StainedGlass/SGlassImages/SGlass19B-LayerStack.jpg > >> >> > >> >> nice... > >> >> > >> >> Daniel Salazar > >> >> www.3developer.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Doug Ollivier<[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>> On 30/04/2010 3:49 a.m., Knapp wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>>> I only use Blender but I was wondering if the other 3d packages > have > >> >>>> found a good way to handle this texture/materials problem? Could we > >> >>>> incorporate some good ideas this way? Why reinvent the wheel? Does > >> >>>> anyone have a favorite other system? How does it work? > >> >>>> > >> >>>> I am not putting down the other ideas given so far, just hoping to > >> >>>> find all the options before we pick the best. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>> For those who have just joined my concept is to move the texture > >> >>> assignment to the point of control/use/influence when setting up a > >> >>> material in order to create a semantic/logicial link between action > >> >>> and > >> >>> affect : http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=2989 > >> >>> > >> >>> Note: I dislike submitting ideas and saying they were influenced by > >> >>> the > >> >>> big boys, because I find it sometimes elicits a "we don't want to > >> >>> copy" > >> >>> response, and forces us to reinvent the wheel due to the pride of > >> >>> being > >> >>> independent and creative. However, pride aside, I agree that looking > >> >>> at > >> >>> how others have solved a problem, and then improving on their > >> >>> solutions > >> >>> is one of the best methods of development, its not revolutionary, > but > >> >>> nor were puffer-fish, they evolved from something way less exciting. > >> >>> > >> >>> I'll outline the two softwares that I have used that give any real > >> >>> control over multiple textures, I am curious what great softwares > >> others > >> >>> have used that solve these issues. But to sum it up I found the > >> >>> easiest > >> >>> to use ones use a socket type system. The non-flexible ones with > nice > >> >>> results (cad rendering packages) give few if not no options so I > just > >> >>> won't mention them. > >> >>> > >> >>> *Photoshop 3D tools,* > >> >>> They use a limited socket type system, either a colour, or a single > >> >>> image per value of influence. > >> >>> I.e. you can choose an image for the reflection channel, colour > >> channel, > >> >>> spec channel.... > >> >>> Super easy, pretty limited, but limited in order to be compatible > with > >> >>> real-time 3D content in PDF's etc... > >> >>> Since you are in photoshop you can edit the images, and this is > where > >> >>> you can add layers and overlay options etc... to get what you want > in > >> >>> terms of further control. > >> >>> > >> >>> *Maya (it's been a while, this is from memory)* > >> >>> Uses something in-between what I am suggesting and the photoshop > >> >>> approach. Just like the Blender 2.5 materials panel; each material > or > >> >>> setting is broken up into a sub panel that can be turned on/off for > >> >>> any > >> >>> one effect (incredibly close to the current Blender layout). > However, > >> >>> they use a socket type texture/node/material input to alter various > >> >>> settings that cannot be controlled simply by a slider or colour > >> >>> picker. > >> >>> I believe their implementation is even used to plug in 3rd party > >> Plugins > >> >>> like SSS, Ramp, and fresnel effects to the various channels etc... > >> >>> (not > >> >>> just textures). This linked approach also creates a hypergraph > >> >>> (nodes) > >> >>> structure. I had no idea how to use that then so ignored it. > >> >>> > >> >>> My biggest annoyance with the Maya system was getting lost once a > >> >>> texture has been added, as it dropped you somewhere else in the > >> >>> interface that you did not expect (a challenge we would need to > >> >>> overcome, but one I think is possible). > >> >>> > >> >>> I am glad brecht suggested this or something similar, as he's pretty > >> >>> on > >> >>> to it, especially when it comes to getting large numbers of fans. > >> >>> > >> >>> If this approach is preferred, and is backed up by a development > goal > >> >>> from the decision makers (If Ton sanctions exploring it it etc..), I > >> >>> will be willing to work through interface issues with Matt, and > >> >>> William > >> >>> (these are the two people focusing on interface correct?). > >> >>> > >> >>> The main interface issues to overcome as I can see it are. > >> >>> > >> >>> ** Materials - how to keep these tabs clean from fluff > >> >>> ** Texture application settings - Where and how do you edit these > >> >>> settings that are unique to each material (not to the texture) > >> >>> ** Texture settings - the traditional 2.4x datablock, how do you get > >> >>> to > >> >>> this and back again from a material, and a potential intermediate > step > >> >>> ** Adding and mixing - The current system lets you add and mix > >> >>> multiple > >> >>> textures, how can this be easily and logically done? (nodes?, > >> stacks?...) > >> >>> ** extending into the future... Plugins Etc - I think some of this > >> >>> will > >> >>> come for free if this is a natural step towards "nodes everywhere". > >> >>> > >> >>> I think there are no issues that cannot be overcome. and I think > that > >> >>> old textures can be loaded into a new interface with full > >> compatibility. > >> >>> > >> >>> Someone let me know if this warrants further development and I will > >> look > >> >>> at creating a more detailed interface flow scenario. > >> >>> > >> >>> By trade i'm an Industrial Designer, so can look at usability and > >> >>> interaction, I'm not a coder unfortunately so cannot help there. > >> >>> > >> >>> Cheers > >> >>> > >> >>> -- > >> >>> Doug Ollivier > >> >>> > >> >>> *C:* +64 (0)27 412 0807 > >> >>> *P:* +64 (0)3 980 7197 > >> >>> *E:* [email protected] > >> >>> *W:* http://doug.org.nz > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> Bf-committers mailing list > >> >>> [email protected] > >> >>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Bf-committers mailing list > >> >> [email protected] > >> >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Bf-committers mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Bf-committers mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > >From Luke > _______________________________________________ > Bf-committers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > _______________________________________________ Bf-committers mailing list [email protected] http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
