I've started this topic so It's would be rude from me not to suggest something. First of all I like Bassam suggestion about nodes, here is my suggestion how this should look.
http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=3202 I think image is pretty much self explanatory but if someone need more detailed description I will send it. On top of this, I also like Doug's proposition for sockets witch could be applied for direct assignment of image/tex compund/some-other-node-type to Diffuse, Transparency or what ever... Workflow could be like this: I wish to assign some texture (node) to Diffuse channel. I click on a button beside Difuse color and that shows me drop-down selector. In that drop-down I have scrollable list of available node types with ability to launch file selector and node editor (Ctrl+click on buton that shows that drop-down would launch node editor automatically after some imaga/node is selected) On 9 May 2010 07:43, Doug Ollivier <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi All, > > Just curious what the next step is to see if this goes anywhere. Is it...? > > 1) Have this topic raised at next meeting, to work out if it is > something worth exploring from a user?software structure stand-point > 2) Create a UI proposal exploring the issue and proposing solutions? and > then discussing this at a meeting? > > I assume that because the topic went quiet, that there was agreement (or > not disagreement) with the idea of a Socket type influence system. > > Cheers. > > Doug > > On 30/04/2010 1:52 p.m., Doug Ollivier wrote: > > Awesome, was curious how light-wave did it. > > > > They are all seeming relatively similar with minor differences in > approach. > > > > Any wild cards out there from strange softwares etc? > > > > On 30/04/2010 1:40 p.m., Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.com wrote: > > > >> Ive suggested this type of texture managing in the past inspired on > >> Lightwave where you can assign a texture or a texture stack to each > >> value > >> > >> Material properties with a T icon to launch texture stack > >> > >> http://www.except.nl/lightwave/hdr/images/Surface_notgood_sm.png > >> > >> Texture Stack > >> > >> > http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/LightwaveTuts/LWPacks/StainedGlass/SGlassImages/SGlass19B-LayerStack.jpg > >> > >> nice... > >> > >> Daniel Salazar > >> www.3developer.com > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Doug Ollivier<[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> > >>> On 30/04/2010 3:49 a.m., Knapp wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> I only use Blender but I was wondering if the other 3d packages have > >>>> found a good way to handle this texture/materials problem? Could we > >>>> incorporate some good ideas this way? Why reinvent the wheel? Does > >>>> anyone have a favorite other system? How does it work? > >>>> > >>>> I am not putting down the other ideas given so far, just hoping to > >>>> find all the options before we pick the best. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> For those who have just joined my concept is to move the texture > >>> assignment to the point of control/use/influence when setting up a > >>> material in order to create a semantic/logicial link between action and > >>> affect : http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=2989 > >>> > >>> Note: I dislike submitting ideas and saying they were influenced by the > >>> big boys, because I find it sometimes elicits a "we don't want to copy" > >>> response, and forces us to reinvent the wheel due to the pride of being > >>> independent and creative. However, pride aside, I agree that looking at > >>> how others have solved a problem, and then improving on their solutions > >>> is one of the best methods of development, its not revolutionary, but > >>> nor were puffer-fish, they evolved from something way less exciting. > >>> > >>> I'll outline the two softwares that I have used that give any real > >>> control over multiple textures, I am curious what great softwares > others > >>> have used that solve these issues. But to sum it up I found the easiest > >>> to use ones use a socket type system. The non-flexible ones with nice > >>> results (cad rendering packages) give few if not no options so I just > >>> won't mention them. > >>> > >>> *Photoshop 3D tools,* > >>> They use a limited socket type system, either a colour, or a single > >>> image per value of influence. > >>> I.e. you can choose an image for the reflection channel, colour > channel, > >>> spec channel.... > >>> Super easy, pretty limited, but limited in order to be compatible with > >>> real-time 3D content in PDF's etc... > >>> Since you are in photoshop you can edit the images, and this is where > >>> you can add layers and overlay options etc... to get what you want in > >>> terms of further control. > >>> > >>> *Maya (it's been a while, this is from memory)* > >>> Uses something in-between what I am suggesting and the photoshop > >>> approach. Just like the Blender 2.5 materials panel; each material or > >>> setting is broken up into a sub panel that can be turned on/off for any > >>> one effect (incredibly close to the current Blender layout). However, > >>> they use a socket type texture/node/material input to alter various > >>> settings that cannot be controlled simply by a slider or colour picker. > >>> I believe their implementation is even used to plug in 3rd party > Plugins > >>> like SSS, Ramp, and fresnel effects to the various channels etc... (not > >>> just textures). This linked approach also creates a hypergraph (nodes) > >>> structure. I had no idea how to use that then so ignored it. > >>> > >>> My biggest annoyance with the Maya system was getting lost once a > >>> texture has been added, as it dropped you somewhere else in the > >>> interface that you did not expect (a challenge we would need to > >>> overcome, but one I think is possible). > >>> > >>> I am glad brecht suggested this or something similar, as he's pretty on > >>> to it, especially when it comes to getting large numbers of fans. > >>> > >>> If this approach is preferred, and is backed up by a development goal > >>> from the decision makers (If Ton sanctions exploring it it etc..), I > >>> will be willing to work through interface issues with Matt, and William > >>> (these are the two people focusing on interface correct?). > >>> > >>> The main interface issues to overcome as I can see it are. > >>> > >>> ** Materials - how to keep these tabs clean from fluff > >>> ** Texture application settings - Where and how do you edit these > >>> settings that are unique to each material (not to the texture) > >>> ** Texture settings - the traditional 2.4x datablock, how do you get to > >>> this and back again from a material, and a potential intermediate step > >>> ** Adding and mixing - The current system lets you add and mix multiple > >>> textures, how can this be easily and logically done? (nodes?, > stacks?...) > >>> ** extending into the future... Plugins Etc - I think some of this will > >>> come for free if this is a natural step towards "nodes everywhere". > >>> > >>> I think there are no issues that cannot be overcome. and I think that > >>> old textures can be loaded into a new interface with full > compatibility. > >>> > >>> Someone let me know if this warrants further development and I will > look > >>> at creating a more detailed interface flow scenario. > >>> > >>> By trade i'm an Industrial Designer, so can look at usability and > >>> interaction, I'm not a coder unfortunately so cannot help there. > >>> > >>> Cheers > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Doug Ollivier > >>> > >>> *C:* +64 (0)27 412 0807 > >>> *P:* +64 (0)3 980 7197 > >>> *E:* [email protected] > >>> *W:* http://doug.org.nz > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Bf-committers mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Bf-committers mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > >> > >> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bf-committers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > _______________________________________________ Bf-committers mailing list [email protected] http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
