Tim,

Thanks for writing back.  Those are good points.  
On the SASYNA listserve (to which I was also responding), this issue has gone 
from being a debate, to being a 1-sided crusade (imho), and I just wanted to 
make sure that bikies got a fair shake at all of the facets of the argument.

I would be happy to be part of a group that asks the Co-op to hold off on a 
Jenifer St. egress until just before the construction begins and then only uses 
the egress temporarily, on an as-needed basis.

BTW, I would like to begin a new thread some time to brainstorm on 
convenience-driving, and how we as bikies can help others see that biking can 
be convenient too (no traffic jams, less road rage, better route options, 
etc.).  There is a lot wrapped up in that word "convenience" that keeps folks 
who usually drive to the store from biking there (many unfounded and a few 
founded fears, the right bike and gear, physical endurance, patience, planning, 
etc.).  

In cycling solidarity,

India

On 09/05/10, tim wong  <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi India,
> 
> Thanks for writing.  It seems almost instinctual to assume that since the 
> Coop lies between two streets that if access to cars is lessened on one 
> street that they should automatically be allowed to use the second street, 
> even if that is the route used by bicyclists, pedestrians, and bus riders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree.  Just because some people "need" to use cars, gigantic boxes 
> (compared to the room taken up by the driver--I'll attach the graphic for the 
> few people in Madison who haven't yet seen it:  
> http://www.unep.org/geo/geo4/media/graphics/Zoom/2.06.jpg) that take up a 
> bunch of room--and I say "need" because for every one who has a legitimate 
> reason to drive to the coop, there is at least one who does it out of habit 
> or "convenience," doesn't mean that we automatically maximize their 
> opportunity to continue driving during the reconstruction chaos, and turn 
> Jenifer St. into a busy commercial street.
> 
> 
> In addition to the reasons why we shouldn't turn a popular bicycle street 
> into a car-clogged street are what I see as the logistical nightmare of what 
> happens if the coop actually does build this two-way driveway.  I'm pasting 
> this in from another e-mail I sent earlier, in case the flow seems somewhat 
> inconsistent:
> 
> 
> 1) there is no strong evidence that access to the Wmson St. parking lot 
> will be any worse for cars during the reconstruction than now; in fact, 
> it might be easier in that traffic will only be coming from one 
> direction, so pulling in and out WILL be easier.  (I picketed in front 
> of the Coop for an hour and a half during rush hour, and I have to say that 
> even though 
> traffic might have been
>  lighter on this particular Friday, cars had NO problems getting in or out of 
> the parking lot.  There are lulls due to the stop lights; stopping the 
> left turns out took away most of the delays and congestion.)
> 
> 2)  If the Coop 
> is allowed to build its driveway, especially now, nine months before the
>  reconstruction even begins in 2011, if it even starts then, it will be a
>  disaster for the Marquette neighborhood in general and Jenifer St. 
> specifically.  For instance, once the driveway is built, do you think 
> ANYONE in a car will even try to enter from Williamson?  No, they'll be on 
> Jenifer because (they think) it's easier.  The bike/ped entrance from 
> Jenifer will functionally cease to exist, between the congestion, the 
> fumes, and all the other negatives cars bring to a narrow space.  The 
> Coop will probably have to abandon all those parking spots on the west 
> side of the store, as you can't have two-way traffic and cars pulling in
>  and out
>  constantly.  It is a nightmare waiting to happen.  
> 
> At a minimum, the Coop should be talked out of any driveway construction 
> until the spring of 2011.
> 
> I am working with other people to minimize the disruption to the neighborhood 
> and businesses, in part by channeling through traffic over to East Washington 
> where they probably belong (and which will definitely be faster, especially 
> during reconstruction).  If car traffic on Williamson is less, there will be 
> less incentive to use back streets as an alternate route.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 10:42 AM, India Rose Viola 
> <[email protected](javascript:main.compose()> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >     
> > 
> >       
> >       
> >       
> > Tim & all,
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Just wanted to chime in to say that there are multiple view points on this 
> > issue, even among bikies.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Some years back, the neighborhood was against the Co-op putting a bicycle 
> > egress onto Jenifer Street as well.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Because of the impending construction that will tear up Williamson Street 
> > next year, the Co-op will need to have an alternate entry/exit for cars 
> > into their lot.  It is debatable, but I am under the impression that the 
> > driveway in and out of the Co-op lot onto Jenifer Street could be a 
> > practival temporary solution.  In order to comply with city code, it cannot 
> > be a temporary-seeming driveway (i.e. gravel, dirt, etc).  It has to be 
> > paved and finished in order to be used by cars.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I bike to the Co-op to do my shopping, but I don't think that everyone can 
> > or should bike.  I would love to see more people walking, biking, and 
> > taking the bus more of the time.  I also understand that different people 
> > have different transportation needs.  The Co-op does not have a very large 
> > parking lot considering it's customer base.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I don't know what the alternatives are for the Co-op as far as access to 
> > their lot during construction.  I haven't heard of any creative ideas that 
> > make it so that an egress onto Jenifer Street can be avoided.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I understand the plight of neighbors on the 1200 block of Jenifer Street, 
> > and as a commuter that bikes down Jenny St. every weekday in both 
> > directions, I am not excited about the increase in traffic that a driveway 
> > to the Co-op will incur, but I also understand why this temporary driveway 
> > is necessary.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The co-op is a major reason why Willy St. is as vibrant and successful as 
> > it is.  Yes, people drive to the Co-op.  But if the Co-op weren't within 
> > walking distance to the entire Willy St. neighborhood, a lot of folks who 
> > are disgruntled about folks driving to the Co-op would find themselves 
> > driving to a grocery store in a different neighborhood.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Food for thought.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -India Viola
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 09/04/10, tim wong  <[email protected](javascript:main.compose()> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > As some of you bicyclists, especially those on the east side, might have 
> > > heard, the Coop, against the strong opposition of neighbors and those 
> > > attending a meeting on August 16th, are forging ahead with their plans to 
> > > build a 20-foot road from the west side of the coop parking lot onto 
> > > Jenifer St.  This, of course, will dramatically increase traffic on the 
> > > already busy Jenifer St. and endanger all of us.  See below the various 
> > > actions you can take.  In addition, I have attached a copy of the 
> > > petition that is being circulated, starting today at 4:30, where we will 
> > > be distributing brochures against the driveway, having petitions.  Yard 
> > > signs and eventually T-shirts will be available.  Hope to see you there.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > Contact me off list or write to 
> > > [email protected](javascript:main.compose()(java_script:main.compose(). 
> > >  See you there.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > tim
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bikies mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
-- 
India Viola
Stretton Lab
115 Zoology Research
1117 W. Johnson St.
Madison, WI 53706
608.262.3336

"How can we learn from our mistakes if we don't first acknowledge them?" 
-Anonymous
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