Tim, do not go narrower than 44 feet for the sake of bikes. Narrower starts squeezing bikes severely.
The bulbouts if used should not restrict bikes. Mike -------------------------------------------------- On 7 Sep 2010 at 2:00, tim wong wrote: We are proposing a variety of modifications to the street, all of which will enhance the pedestrian experience. So, although the overall width of the street will probably be narrowed from 48' to 44' (some of us prefer 42', as it is east of Baldwin to the river), each intersection will be refigured, with bulbouts, etc. The city just recently agreed to change it from a "resurfacing" to a "reconstruction," which is somewhat semantic, but also implies more modifications than a simple resurfacing, which Wmson St. never was in the first place. On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Mitchell Nussbaum <[email protected]> wrote: If the street is narrowed, will they have to remove the pedestrian island at Few St? Or do that have that figured into the plan? From: "tim wong" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: "Mitchell Nussbaum" <[email protected]>, [email protected], [email protected] Sent: Monday, September 6, 2010 7:33:46 PM Subject: Re: [Bikies] Why the Coop Driveway Is a Bad Idea That block of Williamson will apparently be narrowed four feet, in order to provide more terrace space, something neighborhood businesses have asked for. A group of people are working on plans to "green" the street. There will be a meeting on the 23rd of September at Research Products (Ingersoll and Main) from 5 to 7, with a presentation beginning at 5:30. Narrowing the street will not change the fact that it will still be four lanes wide, two in each direction. On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 2:00 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: I am wondering if Willy street will be widened or narrowed or is this just simply a resurfacing of the street. I tried looking for plans online but none were found on the city of madison page. Shae Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Mitchell Nussbaum <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 11:15:41 To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Bikies] Why the Coop Driveway Is a Bad Idea I'm not unalterably opposed to a temporary Jenifer St. driveway, but I think it should be a last resort. Access from Willy Street might be OK, even when the street is torn up, and it might make sense to encourage people from outside the neighborhood to drive to the new West Side store instead (though it should be noted that a stretch of University Avenue will be torn up too, next year). ----- Original Message ----- From: "India Rose Viola" <[email protected]> To: "tim wong" <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Sent: Monday, September 6, 2010 10:02:59 AM Subject: Re: [Bikies] Why the Coop Driveway Is a Bad Idea Tim, Thanks for writing back. Those are good points. On the SASYNA listserve (to which I was also responding), this issue has gone from being a debate, to being a 1-sided crusade (imho), and I just wanted to make sure that bikies got a fair shake at all of the facets of the argument. I would be happy to be part of a group that asks the Co-op to hold off on a Jenifer St. egress until just before the construction begins and then only uses the egress temporarily, on an as-needed basis. BTW, I would like to begin a new thread some time to brainstorm on convenience-driving, and how we as bikies can help others see that biking can be convenient too (no traffic jams, less road rage, better route options, etc.). There is a lot wrapped up in that word "convenience" that keeps folks who usually drive to the store from biking there (many unfounded and a few founded fears, the right bike and gear, physical endurance, patience, planning, etc.). In cycling solidarity, India On 09/05/10, tim wong <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi India, > > Thanks for writing. It seems almost instinctual to assume that since the Coop lies between two streets that if access to cars is lessened on one street that they should automatically be allowed to use the second street, even if that is the route used by bicyclists, pedestrians, and bus riders. > > > > > I don't agree. Just because some people "need" to use cars, gigantic boxes (compared to the room taken up by the driver--I'll attach the graphic for the few people in Madison who haven't yet seen it: http://www.unep.org/geo/geo4/media/graphics/Zoom/2.06.jpg) that take up a bunch of room--and I say "need" because for every one who has a legitimate reason to drive to the coop, there is at least one who does it out of habit or "convenience," doesn't mean that we automatically maximize their opportunity to continue driving during the reconstruction chaos, and turn Jenifer St. into a busy commercial street. > > > In addition to the reasons why we shouldn't turn a popular bicycle street into a car-clogged street are what I see as the logistical nightmare of what happens if the coop actually does build this two-way driveway. I'm pasting this in from another e-mail I sent earlier, in case the flow seems somewhat inconsistent: > > > 1) there is no strong evidence that access to the Wmson St. parking lot > will be any worse for cars during the reconstruction than now; in fact, > it might be easier in that traffic will only be coming from one > direction, so pulling in and out WILL be easier. (I picketed in front > of the Coop for an hour and a half during rush hour, and I have to say that even though > traffic might have been > lighter on this particular Friday, cars had NO problems getting in or out of > the parking lot. There are lulls due to the stop lights; stopping the > left turns out took away most of the delays and congestion.) > > 2) If the Coop > is allowed to build its driveway, especially now, nine months before the > reconstruction even begins in 2011, if it even starts then, it will be a > disaster for the Marquette neighborhood in general and Jenifer St. > specifically. For instance, once the driveway is built, do you think > ANYONE in a car will even try to enter from Williamson?No, they'll be on > Jenifer because (they think) it's easier. The bike/ped entrance from > Jenifer will functionally cease to exist, between the congestion, the > fumes, and all the other negatives cars bring to a narrow space. The > Coop will probably have to abandon all those parking spots on the west > side of the store, as you can't have two-way traffic and cars pulling in > and out > constantly. It is a nightmare waiting to happen. > > At a minimum, the Coop should be talked out of any driveway construction until the spring of 2011. > > I am working with other people to minimize the disruption to the neighborhood and businesses, in part by channeling through traffic over to East Washington where they probably belong (and which will definitely be faster, especially during reconstruction). If car traffic on Williamson is less, there will be less incentive to use back streets as an alternate route. > > > > > tim > > > > > On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 10:42 AM, India Rose Viola <[email protected](javascript:main.compose()> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim & all, > > > > > > > > Just wanted to chime in to say that there are multiple view points on this issue, even among bikies. > > > > > > > > Some years back, the neighborhood was against the Co-op putting a bicycle egress onto Jenifer Street as well. > > > > > > > > Because of the impending construction that will tear up Williamson Street next year, the Co-op will need to have an alternate entry/exit for cars into their lot. It is debatable, but I am under the impression that the driveway in and out of the Co-op lot onto Jenifer Street could be a practival temporary solution. In order to comply with city code, it cannot be a temporary-seeming driveway (i.e. gravel, dirt, etc). It has to be paved and finished in order to be used by cars. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I bike to the Co-op to do my shopping, but I don't think that everyone can or should bike. I would love to see more people walking, biking, and taking the bus more of the time. I also understand that different people have different transportation needs. The Co-op does not have a very large parking lot considering it's customer base. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what the alternatives are for the Co-op as far as access to their lot during construction. I haven't heard of any creative ideas that make it so that an egress onto Jenifer Street can be avoided. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand the plight of neighbors on the 1200 block of Jenifer Street, and as a commuter that bikes down Jenny St. every weekday in both directions, I am not excited about the increase in traffic that a driveway to the Co-op will incur, but I also understand why this temporary driveway is necessary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The co-op is a major reason why Willy St. is as vibrant and successful as it is. Yes, people drive to the Co-op. But if the Co-op weren't within walking distance to the entire Willy St. neighborhood, a lot of folks who are disgruntled about folks driving to the Co-op would find themselves driving to a grocery store in a different neighborhood. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food for thought. > > > > > > > > -India Viola > > > > > > > > On 09/04/10, tim wong <[email protected](javascript:main.compose()> wrote: > > > > > > > > > As some of you bicyclists, especially those on the east side, might have heard, the Coop, against the strong opposition of neighbors and those attending a meeting on August 16th, are forging ahead with their plans to build a 20-foot road from the west side of the coop parking lot onto Jenifer St.This, of course, will dramatically increase traffic on the already busy Jenifer St. and endanger all of us. See below the various actions you can take. In addition, I have attached a copy of the petition that is being circulated, starting today at 4:30, where we will be distributing brochures against the driveway, having petitions. Yard signs and eventually T-shirts will be available. Hope to see you there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contact me off list or write to [email protected](javascript:main.compose()(java_script:main.compose(). See you there. > > > > > > > > > > tim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org -- India Viola Stretton Lab 115 Zoology Research 1117 W. Johnson St. Madison, WI 53706 608.262.3336 "How can we learn from our mistakes if we don't first acknowledge them?" -Anonymous _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org -- "Our first task is to create a shadow economic, social, and even technological structure that will be ready to take over as the existing system fails."--David Ehrenfeld "We have at most ten years--not ten years to decide upon action, but ten years to alter fundamentally the trajectory of global greenhouse emissions."--James Hansen _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org -- "Our first task is to create a shadow economic, social, and even technological structure that will be ready to take over as the existing system fails."--David Ehrenfeld "We have at most ten years--not ten years to decide upon action, but ten years to alter fundamentally the trajectory of global greenhouse emissions."--James Hansen _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
