I too was going to mention the Middleton store as an escape valve for shoppers who get to the co-op by automobile. It turns out that the University Avenue construction is being delayed until 2012. The cost estimates turned out to be wildly optimistic (something on the order of reality = $11 million; estimate = $8 million).
> I'm not unalterably opposed to a temporary Jenifer St. driveway, but I > think it should be a last resort. Access from Willy Street might be OK, > even when the street is torn up, and it might make sense to encourage > people from outside the neighborhood to drive to the new West Side store > instead (though it should be noted that a stretch of University Avenue > will be torn up too, next year). > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "India Rose Viola" <[email protected]> > To: "tim wong" <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, September 6, 2010 10:02:59 AM > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Why the Coop Driveway Is a Bad Idea > > Tim, > > Thanks for writing back. Those are good points. > On the SASYNA listserve (to which I was also responding), this issue has > gone from being a debate, to being a 1-sided crusade (imho), and I just > wanted to make sure that bikies got a fair shake at all of the facets of > the argument. > > I would be happy to be part of a group that asks the Co-op to hold off on > a Jenifer St. egress until just before the construction begins and then > only uses the egress temporarily, on an as-needed basis. > > BTW, I would like to begin a new thread some time to brainstorm on > convenience-driving, and how we as bikies can help others see that biking > can be convenient too (no traffic jams, less road rage, better route > options, etc.). There is a lot wrapped up in that word "convenience" that > keeps folks who usually drive to the store from biking there (many > unfounded and a few founded fears, the right bike and gear, physical > endurance, patience, planning, etc.). > > In cycling solidarity, > > India > > On 09/05/10, tim wong <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi India, >> >> Thanks for writing. It seems almost instinctual to assume that since >> the Coop lies between two streets that if access to cars is lessened on >> one street that they should automatically be allowed to use the second >> street, even if that is the route used by bicyclists, pedestrians, and >> bus riders. >> >> >> >> >> I don't agree. Just because some people "need" to use cars, gigantic >> boxes (compared to the room taken up by the driver--I'll attach the >> graphic for the few people in Madison who haven't yet seen it: >> http://www.unep.org/geo/geo4/media/graphics/Zoom/2.06.jpg) that take up >> a bunch of room--and I say "need" because for every one who has a >> legitimate reason to drive to the coop, there is at least one who does >> it out of habit or "convenience," doesn't mean that we automatically >> maximize their opportunity to continue driving during the reconstruction >> chaos, and turn Jenifer St. into a busy commercial street. >> >> >> In addition to the reasons why we shouldn't turn a popular bicycle >> street into a car-clogged street are what I see as the logistical >> nightmare of what happens if the coop actually does build this two-way >> driveway. I'm pasting this in from another e-mail I sent earlier, in >> case the flow seems somewhat inconsistent: >> >> >> 1) there is no strong evidence that access to the Wmson St. parking lot >> will be any worse for cars during the reconstruction than now; in fact, >> it might be easier in that traffic will only be coming from one >> direction, so pulling in and out WILL be easier. (I picketed in front >> of the Coop for an hour and a half during rush hour, and I have to say >> that even though >> traffic might have been >> lighter on this particular Friday, cars had NO problems getting in or >> out of >> the parking lot. There are lulls due to the stop lights; stopping the >> left turns out took away most of the delays and congestion.) >> >> 2) If the Coop >> is allowed to build its driveway, especially now, nine months before the >> reconstruction even begins in 2011, if it even starts then, it will be >> a >> disaster for the Marquette neighborhood in general and Jenifer St. >> specifically. For instance, once the driveway is built, do you think >> ANYONE in a car will even try to enter from Williamson? No, they'll be >> on >> Jenifer because (they think) it's easier. The bike/ped entrance from >> Jenifer will functionally cease to exist, between the congestion, the >> fumes, and all the other negatives cars bring to a narrow space. The >> Coop will probably have to abandon all those parking spots on the west >> side of the store, as you can't have two-way traffic and cars pulling in >> and out >> constantly. It is a nightmare waiting to happen. >> >> At a minimum, the Coop should be talked out of any driveway construction >> until the spring of 2011. >> >> I am working with other people to minimize the disruption to the >> neighborhood and businesses, in part by channeling through traffic over >> to East Washington where they probably belong (and which will definitely >> be faster, especially during reconstruction). If car traffic on >> Williamson is less, there will be less incentive to use back streets as >> an alternate route. >> >> >> >> >> tim >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 10:42 AM, India Rose Viola >> <[email protected](javascript:main.compose()> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >  >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Tim & all, >> > >> > >> > >> > Just wanted to chime in to say that there are multiple view points on >> this issue, even among bikies. >> > >> > >> > >> > Some years back, the neighborhood was against the Co-op putting a >> bicycle egress onto Jenifer Street as well. >> > >> > >> > >> > Because of the impending construction that will tear up Williamson >> Street next year, the Co-op will need to have an alternate entry/exit >> for cars into their lot. It is debatable, but I am under the >> impression that the driveway in and out of the Co-op lot onto Jenifer >> Street could be a practival temporary solution. In order to comply >> with city code, it cannot be a temporary-seeming driveway (i.e. >> gravel, dirt, etc). It has to be paved and finished in order to be >> used by cars. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > I bike to the Co-op to do my shopping, but I don't think that everyone >> can or should bike. I would love to see more people walking, biking, >> and taking the bus more of the time. I also understand that different >> people have different transportation needs. The Co-op does not have a >> very large parking lot considering it's customer base. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > I don't know what the alternatives are for the Co-op as far as access >> to their lot during construction. I haven't heard of any creative >> ideas that make it so that an egress onto Jenifer Street can be >> avoided. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > I understand the plight of neighbors on the 1200 block of Jenifer >> Street, and as a commuter that bikes down Jenny St. every weekday in >> both directions, I am not excited about the increase in traffic that a >> driveway to the Co-op will incur, but I also understand why this >> temporary driveway is necessary. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > The co-op is a major reason why Willy St. is as vibrant and successful >> as it is. Yes, people drive to the Co-op. But if the Co-op weren't >> within walking distance to the entire Willy St. neighborhood, a lot of >> folks who are disgruntled about folks driving to the Co-op would find >> themselves driving to a grocery store in a different neighborhood. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Food for thought. >> > >> > >> > >> > -India Viola >> > >> > >> > >> > On 09/04/10, tim wong <[email protected](javascript:main.compose()> >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > > As some of you bicyclists, especially those on the east side, might >> have heard, the Coop, against the strong opposition of neighbors and >> those attending a meeting on August 16th, are forging ahead with >> their plans to build a 20-foot road from the west side of the coop >> parking lot onto Jenifer St. This, of course, will dramatically >> increase traffic on the already busy Jenifer St. and endanger all of >> us. See below the various actions you can take. In addition, I >> have attached a copy of the petition that is being circulated, >> starting today at 4:30, where we will be distributing brochures >> against the driveway, having petitions. Yard signs and eventually >> T-shirts will be available. Hope to see you there. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Contact me off list or write to >> [email protected](javascript:main.compose()(java_script:main.compose(). >> See you there. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > tim >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikies mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > -- > India Viola > Stretton Lab > 115 Zoology Research > 1117 W. Johnson St. > Madison, WI 53706 > 608.262.3336 > > "How can we learn from our mistakes if we don't first acknowledge them?" > -Anonymous > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
