My 2 cents... I went from 23c road tires 2 years ago to 25c Conti Gatorskin "training" tires - they are TOUGH and only a bit larger. I think they have a layer of a ceramic cloth similar to kevlar. No flats in 2 years and they are nice handling meats. Dan
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 09:23:31 -0700 From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Bikies] MS Ride and tires Like anything else in life, you can't gain a feature while changing one option without giving up another feature. We have established the probability of the slag as one factor of increased flats, and road trash as a another factor, lightweight and thin tires as a another factor. The conflict then appears to be municipality's desire for cost effective means of keeping streets safe and smooth and the cyclists desire to keep ounces off the bicycle for speed. Umm, lets see which desire wins when it comes to the public budget time. I know I'm a poster child for heavy bikes or trikes but if I had to choose between protecting my bones or my racing self-image, I'll protect my bones with heavier puncture resistant tires because I can't win a race by spending time changing tires. My humble two cents worth.DJ --- On Fri, 8/12/11, Michael Rewey <[email protected]> wrote: From: Michael Rewey <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Bikies] MS Ride and tires To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 10:49 AM Larry presented a very good history. We've been presented that it is either pea gravel or coal slag for sealing our streets. While I support the sealing of streets (but not necessarily with coal slag) we've been given an either/or scenario. Let's look at it differently. I suggest that we use fractured stone or stone chips that are pre-coated. They do it in Ireland where the chips are actually pretty big. Yes, it will cost a little more, but the street will be "ready to go" right after application, there will be no glass slivers that cause flat tires and it removes the environmental question surrounding the using of coal slag in urban and residential areas. Mike Rewey -------------------------------------------------- On 12 Aug 2011 at 8:27, Larry D. Nelson wrote: Let me attempt to give some background on this issue, Kevin. I am sure that Mike Rewey can add information as well. · Counties and local municipalities would prefer to maintain roads by grinding off the surface and replacing with new asphalt every 15 to 20 years. That takes a lot of petroleum and energy in exchange for a smooth surface. · Sealing the surface with aggregate and water emulsified asphalt every five years seals the cracks and, for a residential street, allows the pavement to be maintained indefinitely. The material covers the imperfections but does not reduce them but that is not generally a problem on residential streets where there is a demand for slower traffic. · In the early 1970s, air pollution concerns required the shift from asphaltic cutback materials to water emulsified materials to reduce the release of volatile compounds into the atmosphere. The old material was bad for the air but it was excellent for pavements. · The City of Madison used chip seal on its 80 miles of unimproved streets but would not employee the material on its improved streets. City policy assessed the cost of the pavement to the property owner and residents of unimproved streets would tolerate the pea gravel and oil rather than be assessed for an improved street. Dane County did the work. · The use of pea gravel has some serious problems. As I said, bikers were particularly impacted because “it’s like biking on marbles.” Also, pea gravel is mined from glacial outwash deposits, often along streams. Getting a quarry/surface mine in Dane County is pretty difficult. · Dane County Recycling Coordinator, working with the Dane County Highway Department, successfully demonstrated using recycling materials from power plants for aggregate on County projects. · Based on my observations, the recycled materials adhere to the pavement better than pea gravel. And, people can walk and bike on the material almost immediately. Given our experience in using pea gravel in past years and probability of bike crashes, I think its use is too great a risk to the public. Larry From: [email protected] [mailto:bikies- [email protected]] On Behalf Of Kevin Luecke Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 3:54 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Bikies] MS Ride and tires I will chime in because I keep seeing mention of tire choice making a big impact on the flats people are reporting. Tires definitely make a big difference in flat prevention - my commuter bikes have heavy, slow rolling, uncomfortable tires that are damn near impossible to flat. I never carry patches or tubes on my commuters. On my road bike I ride typical training tires: 23c, narrow, light tires. Why? They are noticeably faster and more comfortable than heavily armored tires. In the last four years I have had a total of two flats in the Madison area on these tires (and one was because I let the tire visibly wear too thin). This summer my wife and I have had at least 6 flats! Nothing has changed on the equipment side of things, so I have to think it is something on the road that is causing more flats. Every time I have have examined the tires, there are more and more little cuts, usually filled with very small chips of what looks like glass. After all of these messages, and taking a closer look at what is out on the road, I am now convinced that it is the coal slag being used as chip-seal aggregate. While I like that a practical use is being found for what is otherwise a waste product, this may not be the best use for it. And Larry, you mentioned that this is "less expensive" than pea gravel - shouldn't coal plants be paying municipalities to take it off their hands or at least giving it away for free? Otherwise they'd have to pay to dump it. Seems like the munis are getting screwed! Kevin -- Kevin Luecke Lead Planner, Bicycle Federation of Wisconsin www.bfw.org | 608-251-4456 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
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