"If it's true that mo"peds" pollute more than ten times more than a large-sized SUV, I don't think I prefer mo"peds" to cars."
This is a very valid point. If you examined a row of parked scooters on campus, I have no doubt you'd find some equipped with nasty 2-strokes engines which are, in terms of emissions, worse than cars, trucks, and SUVs. Due in large part to the lousy emissions of the 2-stroke engine, the major scooter manufacturers (Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Vespa) no longer produce scooters with 2-stroke engines for the US market, opting instead for gas powered 4-strokes and, more recently, a few electric models. This has been true for a number of years now. So, along side some of those older 2-stroke scooters, you'll find plenty of 4-stroke models and you'll see fewer and fewer of the former as time goes by. On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 1:30 AM, tim wong <[email protected]> wrote: > If it's true that mo"peds" pollute more than ten times more than a > large-sized SUV, I don't think I prefer mo"peds" to cars. > > > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Martin Lund <[email protected]>wrote: > >> I don't disagree that scooters, of any engine size, are by their very >> nature motor-cycles and should be treated as such. This is my perspective as >> both a cyclist *and *a motorcyclist (though I use the later almost >> exclusively for long-distance travel.) >> >> My question as to where, once having been restricted from parking in >> bicycle parking areas, would mopeds be directed to park, was probably not >> the specific question I should have asked. Instead of posing another >> question, I'll simply make a (typically long-winded) comment: >> >> Much in the same way that you can fit a great number of bicycles into a >> single car parking space, so too can you fit a number of mopeds, scooters, >> and even larger motorcycles into the footprint of a single car parking >> space. (I know, I know, this is the "bikies" list and the irony that I of >> all people am advocating for any type of motor vehicle infrastructure is not >> at all lost on me.) I see a lot of scooter traffic passing my apartment on >> Atwood Avenue and heading into downtown Madison. Each of these may be one >> less bike, but they are also one less car. While I might prefer to see more >> bicycles downtown, I'd much prefer simply to see fewer cars -- regardless of >> whether that means more people are biking, walking, busing, or even >> motor-scooting/cycling. >> >> *In short:* If and when mopeds are relegated to the street (which I would >> agree is exactly where they belong) I would advocate for an increase in >> dedicated, if only seasonal, parking for mopeds and motorcycles *specifically >> at the expense* of a handful of car parking spaces. >> >> -M. >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Ross, Arthur >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Here are the State Statute definitions of a moped and a motor bicycle. I >>> have included the motor bicycle definition because some of the new electric >>> bikes which this category covers look a lot like mopeds. Note that to be >>> considered a motor bicycle it has to have operable pedals. See for example >>> http://www.jjwirelessworld.com/eb-098-48v-electric-city-bike-p-55.htmland >>> **** >>> >>> http://www.jjwirelessworld.com/ew-550-electric-transport-moped-p-92.html >>> **** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> Back to the moped definition, If it has pedals it can be up to 130 cc. >>> If it does not have pedals, the max is 50 cc. See below.**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> Others have asked about moped use of bike lanes or paths and if the city >>> has any ordinances about this. This is covered by state statutes, mopeds >>> are not permitted on bicycle ways unless they are operated without the motor >>> engaged, under human power. See statues below.**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> *340.01(29m) *(am) "Moped" means any of the following motor vehicles >>> capable of speeds of not more than 30 miles per hour with a 150-pound rider >>> on a dry, level, hard surface with no wind, excluding a tractor, a power >>> source as an integral part of the vehicle and a seat for the operator:** >>> ** >>> >>> 1. A bicycle-type vehicle with fully operative pedals for propulsion by >>> human power and an engine certified by the manufacturer at not more than 130 >>> cubic centimeters or an equivalent power unit.**** >>> >>> 2. A Type 1 motorcycle with an automatic transmission and an engine >>> certified by the manufacturer at not more than 50 cubic centimeters or an >>> equivalent power unit.**** >>> >>> (bm) "Moped" does not include a motor bicycle.**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> *340.01(30) *"Motor bicycle" means any of the following:**** >>> >>> (a) A bicycle to which a power unit not an integral part of the vehicle >>> has been added to permit the vehicle to travel at a speed of not more than >>> 30 miles per hour with a 150-pound rider on a dry, level, hard surface with >>> no wind and having a seat for the operator.**** >>> >>> (b) A 2-wheeled or 3-wheeled vehicle that has fully operative pedals for >>> propulsion by human power and an electric motor of less than 750 watts and >>> that is capable, when powered solely by the motor, of a maximum speed of >>> less than 20 miles per hour with a 170-pound rider on a dry, level, hard >>> surface with no wind.**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> *340.01(5m) *"Bike route" means any bicycle lane, bicycle way or highway >>> which has been duly designated by the governing body of any city, town, >>> village or county and which is identified by appropriate signs and markings. >>> **** >>> >>> * * >>> >>> *340.01(5s) *"Bicycle way" means any path or sidewalk or portion thereof >>> designated for the use of bicycles and electric personal assistive mobility >>> devices by the governing body of any city, town, village, or county.**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> *346.79 (5) *No person may ride a moped or motor bicycle with the power >>> unit in operation upon a bicycle way.**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> *346.94 (12) *DRIVING ON BICYCLE LANE OR BICYCLE WAY. No operator of a >>> motor vehicle may drive upon a bicycle lane or bicycle way except to enter a >>> driveway, to merge into a bicycle lane before turning at an intersection, or >>> to enter or leave a parking space located adjacent to the bicycle lane or >>> bicycle way. Persons operating a motor vehicle upon a bicycle lane or >>> bicycle way shall yield the right-of-way to all bicycles and electric >>> personal assistive mobility devices within the bicycle lane or bicycle way. >>> **** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> Arthur Ross, Pedestrian-Bicycle Coordinator >>> City of Madison Traffic Engineering Division >>> 215 Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd., Suite 100 >>> PO Box 2986 >>> Madison, WI 53701-2986 >>> 608/266-6225**** >>> >>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >>> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Robbie Webber >>> >>> *Sent:* Friday, August 19, 2011 11:41 AM >>> *To:* rick; [email protected] >>> *Cc:* [email protected]; [email protected] >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Bikies] King Street On-Street Bicycle Parking**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> The listing that Rick links >>> to<http://madison.craigslist.org/mcy/2548911779.html>lists a 110 cc >>> scooter. I thought "mopeds" could only be 50 ccs. >>> **** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> I know there was a change in definition at some point, because the old >>> definition also specified that the vehicle could only go 35 mph, on a flat >>> surface, with no wind, carrying a 150 lb. ride r. This one happens to say >>> that it can go 45 mph.**** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> So... I think legally, this is supposed to be licensed as a motorcycle.* >>> *** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> Arthur? jean, Kristin? Am I right?**** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> I also cc'd Jean Vandenbogart and Kristin Radtke who are the UWPD >>> contacts we have been working with over the years. I'm not sure how the >>> correct registration can be assured. I'm sure there are lots of motorcycles >>> masquerading as mopeds in Madison.**** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> >>> Robbie Webber >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> **** >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:02 AM, rick <[email protected]> >>> wrote:**** >>> >>> Mark, You're not wrong to be confused. Most of the dedicated moped >>> parking on campus can only accessed by way of the sidewalk. I'm guessing the >>> original intent was that the well-mannered moped riders would dismount and >>> push their mopeds to the designated parking spot, but how often does that >>> happen? It's not just on campus , an example would be the moped stalls >>> adjacent to the Lucky building along University Ave and the contra-flow bike >>> lane. As for the moped bike path issue near Charter St., I'm afraid that is >>> just the tip of the iceberg. Based on several conversations I've had in the >>> last several months with moped riders and even posts on Craigslist example >>> here <http://madison.craigslist.org/mcy/2548911779.html> , there seems >>> to be a growing "expectation" among moped riders that they are entitled to >>> use the bike paths and lanes. I would like to see Madison pass an ordinance >>> expressly prohibiting this. I general, I'd like to see the >>> mopeds/scooters/2wheelpollutionmachines legally defined as the motorcycles >>> they are. Perhaps that might also increase state and parking revenues a bit? >>> >>> Rick **** >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/19/2011 10:26 AM, Mark Evans wrote: **** >>> >>> What I find confusing is that in most places mopeds are RESTRICTED from >>> being operated on sidewalks. But to access a bike rack on a sidewalk, they >>> would have to ride on the sidewalk. Maybe I am wrong here?? >>> Of course, this would not apply at the bike corrals. >>> At Charter and the Bike Path, a lot of moped students cut onto the >>> path/sidewalk for a time to park at the apartments there. On more than one >>> occasion it cause minor heart palpatations as a large motorized thing darted >>> in front of my people powered vehicle. >>> >>> MArk >>> >>> On 8/19/11 10:17 AM, [email protected] wrote: **** >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Bikies] King Street On-Street Bicycle Parking**** >>> >>> Message-ID:**** >>> >>> <6f431c2ee2f38d459f5dd28c5b9a10bc083bb...@admin-fpm-exch1.fpm.wisc.edu> >>> <6f431c2ee2f38d459f5dd28c5b9a10bc083bb...@admin-fpm-exch1.fpm.wisc.edu>**** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> Regardless of the etymology of the word, "moped" is the term used by >>> WisDOT**** >>> >>> (and the DMV, with whom they must be registered) to describe the vehicle >>> in**** >>> >>> discussion:**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/vehicle/motorcycle/mopeds.htm**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> -- >>> Follow Wheels for Winners on >>> FACEBOOK<http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=734289628&v=wall&ref=profile#%21/pages/Wheels-for-Winners/168983346461729> >>> **** >>> >>> >>> Read Papa Wheelie's Whamblings <http://papawheelie.wordpress.com/>, >>> Mark's creative blog **** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> _______________________________________________**** >>> >>> Bikies mailing list**** >>> >>> [email protected]**** >>> >>> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org**** >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bikies mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bikies mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikies mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org >> >> > > > -- > "Climate change is the greatest weapon of mass destruction of our times. > Unless we in the rich countries recognize this fact and do something about > it, we are guilty of crimes against humanity." > > --Saleemul Huq, quoted in Mark Hertsgaard's *Hot* > >
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