Try going to Thailand where there are many, many 2-wheeled, motorized vehicles to have the experience of what they can do to the air. I couldn¹t wait to get away from the streets in Bangkok and Chiang Mai because of the exhaust stench of the small motorcycles and scooters. It is horrible there in this respect. You just don¹t even want to take a breath when you are near a busy street.
Of course, they may have different or no laws about such exhaust. But maybe we have no exhaust requirements for such vehicles either. Mary On 8/20/11 1:30 AM, "tim wong" <[email protected]> wrote: > If it's true that mo"peds" pollute more than ten times more than a large-sized > SUV, I don't think I prefer mo"peds" to cars. > > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Martin Lund <[email protected]> wrote: >> I don't disagree that scooters, of any engine size, are by their very nature >> motor-cycles and should be treated as such. This is my perspective as both a >> cyclist and a motorcyclist (though I use the later almost exclusively for >> long-distance travel.) >> >> My question as to where, once having been restricted from parking in bicycle >> parking areas, would mopeds be directed to park, was probably not the >> specific question I should have asked. Instead of posing another question, >> I'll simply make a (typically long-winded) comment: >> >> Much in the same way that you can fit a great number of bicycles into a >> single car parking space, so too can you fit a number of mopeds, scooters, >> and even larger motorcycles into the footprint of a single car parking space. >> (I know, I know, this is the "bikies" list and the irony that I of all people >> am advocating for any type of motor vehicle infrastructure is not at all lost >> on me.) I see a lot of scooter traffic passing my apartment on Atwood Avenue >> and heading into downtown Madison. Each of these may be one less bike, but >> they are also one less car. While I might prefer to see more bicycles >> downtown, I'd much prefer simply to see fewer cars -- regardless of whether >> that means more people are biking, walking, busing, or even >> motor-scooting/cycling. >> >> In short: If and when mopeds are relegated to the street (which I would agree >> is exactly where they belong) I would advocate for an increase in dedicated, >> if only seasonal, parking for mopeds and motorcycles specifically at the >> expense of a handful of car parking spaces. >> >> -M. >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Ross, Arthur <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> Here are the State Statute definitions of a moped and a motor bicycle. I >>> have included the motor bicycle definition because some of the new electric >>> bikes which this category covers look a lot like mopeds. Note that to be >>> considered a motor bicycle it has to have operable pedals. See for example >>> http://www.jjwirelessworld.com/eb-098-48v-electric-city-bike-p-55.html and >>> http://www.jjwirelessworld.com/ew-550-electric-transport-moped-p-92.html >>> >>> Back to the moped definition, If it has pedals it can be up to 130 cc. If >>> it does not have pedals, the max is 50 cc. See below. >>> >>> Others have asked about moped use of bike lanes or paths and if the city has >>> any ordinances about this. This is covered by state statutes, mopeds are >>> not permitted on bicycle ways unless they are operated without the motor >>> engaged, under human power. See statues below. >>> >>> 340.01(29m) (am) ³Moped² means any of the following motor vehicles capable >>> of speeds of not more than 30 miles per hour with a 150pound rider on a dry, >>> level, hard surface with no wind, excluding a tractor, a power source as an >>> integral part of the vehicle and a seat for the operator: >>> 1. A bicycletype vehicle with fully operative pedals for propulsion by human >>> power and an engine certified by the manufacturer at not more than 130 cubic >>> centimeters or an equivalent power unit. >>> 2. A Type 1 motorcycle with an automatic transmission and an engine >>> certified by the manufacturer at not more than 50 cubic centimeters or an >>> equivalent power unit. >>> (bm) ³Moped² does not include a motor bicycle. >>> >>> 340.01(30) ³Motor bicycle² means any of the following: >>> (a) A bicycle to which a power unit not an integral part of the vehicle has >>> been added to permit the vehicle to travel at a speed of not more than 30 >>> miles per hour with a 150pound rider on a dry, level, hard surface with no >>> wind and having a seat for the operator. >>> (b) A 2wheeled or 3wheeled vehicle that has fully operative pedals for >>> propulsion by human power and an electric motor of less than 750 watts and >>> that is capable, when powered solely by the motor, of a maximum speed of >>> less than 20 miles per hour with a 170pound rider on a dry, level, hard >>> surface with no wind. >>> >>> 340.01(5m) ³Bike route² means any bicycle lane, bicycle way or highway which >>> has been duly designated by the governing body of any city, town, village or >>> county and which is identified by appropriate signs and markings. >>> >>> 340.01(5s) ³Bicycle way² means any path or sidewalk or portion thereof >>> designated for the use of bicycles and electric personal assistive mobility >>> devices by the governing body of any city, town, village, or county. >>> >>> 346.79 (5) No person may ride a moped or motor bicycle with the power unit >>> in operation upon a bicycle way. >>> >>> 346.94 (12) DRIVING ON BICYCLE LANE OR BICYCLE WAY. No operator of a motor >>> vehicle may drive upon a bicycle lane or bicycle way except to enter a >>> driveway, to merge into a bicycle lane before turning at an intersection, or >>> to enter or leave a parking space located adjacent to the bicycle lane or >>> bicycle way. Persons operating a motor vehicle upon a bicycle lane or >>> bicycle way shall yield the rightofway to all bicycles and electric personal >>> assistive mobility devices within the bicycle lane or bicycle way. >>> >>> >>> Arthur Ross, Pedestrian-Bicycle Coordinator >>> City of Madison Traffic Engineering Division >>> 215 Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd., Suite 100 >>> PO Box 2986 >>> Madison, WI 53701-2986 >>> 608/266-6225 <tel:608%2F266-6225> >>> >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robbie Webber >>> >>> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 11:41 AM >>> To: rick; [email protected] >>> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Bikies] King Street On-Street Bicycle Parking >>> >>> >>> The listing that Rick links to >>> <http://madison.craigslist.org/mcy/2548911779.html> lists a 110 cc scooter. >>> I thought "mopeds" could only be 50 ccs. >>> >>> >>> >>> I know there was a change in definition at some point, because the old >>> definition also specified that the vehicle could only go 35 mph, on a flat >>> surface, with no wind, carrying a 150 lb. ride r. This one happens to say >>> that it can go 45 mph. >>> >>> >>> >>> So... I think legally, this is supposed to be licensed as a motorcycle. >>> >>> >>> >>> Arthur? jean, Kristin? Am I right? >>> >>> >>> >>> I also cc'd Jean Vandenbogart and Kristin Radtke who are the UWPD contacts >>> we have been working with over the years. I'm not sure how the correct >>> registration can be assured. I'm sure there are lots of motorcycles >>> masquerading as mopeds in Madison. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Robbie Webber >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:02 AM, rick <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Mark, You're not wrong to be confused. Most of the dedicated moped parking >>> on campus can only accessed by way of the sidewalk. I'm guessing the >>> original intent was that the well-mannered moped riders would dismount and >>> push their mopeds to the designated parking spot, but how often does that >>> happen? It's not just on campus , an example would be the moped stalls >>> adjacent to the Lucky building along University Ave and the contra-flow bike >>> lane. As for the moped bike path issue near Charter St., I'm afraid that is >>> just the tip of the iceberg. Based on several conversations I've had in the >>> last several months with moped riders and even posts on Craigslist example >>> here <http://madison.craigslist.org/mcy/2548911779.html> , there seems to >>> be a growing "expectation" among moped riders that they are entitled to use >>> the bike paths and lanes. I would like to see Madison pass an ordinance >>> expressly prohibiting this. I general, I'd like to see the >>> mopeds/scooters/2wheelpollutionmachines legally defined as the motorcycles >>> they are. Perhaps that might also increase state and parking revenues a bit? >>> >>> Rick >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/19/2011 10:26 AM, Mark Evans wrote: >>>> >>>> What I find confusing is that in most places mopeds are RESTRICTED from >>>> being operated on sidewalks. But to access a bike rack on a sidewalk, they >>>> would have to ride on the sidewalk. Maybe I am wrong here?? >>>> Of course, this would not apply at the bike corrals. >>>> At Charter and the Bike Path, a lot of moped students cut onto the >>>> path/sidewalk for a time to park at the apartments there. On more than one >>>> occasion it cause minor heart palpatations as a large motorized thing >>>> darted in front of my people powered vehicle. >>>> >>>> MArk >>>> >>>> On 8/19/11 10:17 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>>> Subject: Re: [Bikies] King Street On-Street Bicycle Parking >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <6f431c2ee2f38d459f5dd28c5b9a10bc083bb...@admin-fpm-exch1.fpm.wisc.edu> >>>> <mailto:6f431c2ee2f38d459f5dd28c5b9a10bc083bb...@admin-fpm-exch1.fpm.wisc.e >>>> du> >>>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Regardless of the etymology of the word, "moped" is the term used by WisDOT >>>> (and the DMV, with whom they must be registered) to describe the vehicle in >>>> discussion: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/vehicle/motorcycle/mopeds.htm >>>> >>>>
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