This is going to take a consistent effort from lots of people to
solve. Whenever we see someone use the term “accident,” we need to
call them out and educate them to use the word “crash.” Any radio
report, any newspaper report, where ever. There was just an article
on Active.com entitled “How to Handle a Bike Accident” so I posted the
following comment which received a couple of likes and another
supportive comment:
Please, please, please banish the word “accident” from your
vocabulary. The word “accident” implies: Oops, it just kind of
happened, it couldn’t have been prevented, could have happened to
anybody, I’m really sorry. We need to call this what it is, it is a
Crash. Crashes are preventable occurrences where someone made a bad
decision or was negligent and is at fault. An accident is when a tree
branch falls on or in front of you, or lightning strikes, or a
squirrel runs out in front of you and causes you to crash. (There’s
that word again, you could make a strong case that the bicyclist was
driving too fast for conditions and is responsible for not being able
to safely avoid the squirrel.) Crashes are no Accident!
If we all keep responding consistently, maybe we will slowly change
that “oops” attitude towards these crashes. This is not to say that
we should not also work on all of the channels people mentioned
earlier in this thread, but all of us can work on that media bias and
public perception of “accidents” and maybe eventually make a difference.
John Rider
*From:*Bikies [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of
*Peter Gray via Bikies
*Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 10:21 PM
*To:* Kevin Luecke <[email protected]>
*Cc:* Bikies ListServe <[email protected]>; [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [Bikies] crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt
+1 to Kevin: "Unfortunately, it has become so ingrained in our culture
that these things are just 'accidents' that it will be difficult to
see a shift in holding people accountable."
Personally I get that there's a difference between negligence and
intent, when it comes to applying criminal punishment to a tragic
"accident".
But at a minimum, shouldn't someone whose careless driving causes
serious harm, lose their driving privileges, and have to earn them
back through driver education? (and I could ask the same for gun
ownership)
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Kevin Luecke <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
There was a good piece in the State Journal a while back about
charges being filed (or not) in the case of car-bike crashes:
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/when-cyclists-die-a-closer-look-at-dane-county-crashes/article_d5068be2-0ff0-5b21-a31f-891890c9daf1.html
I agree with Peter about the need for a Vulnerable Users law, and
I worked with the legislature a few years back while I was with
the Bike Fed to pass such a law; unfortunately it didn't make it
out of committee.
I also agree with Clayton that prosecutors should bring more cases
to trail and let juries decide about guilt. However, I also see
the prosecutors' point of view: in 2005 Jessica Bullen was stuck
and killed by a driver who admitted he WAS LOOKING AT THE BACK OF
HIS THROAT IN HIS MIRROR when he hit her. The driver was tried for
negligent homicide, and was acquitted by the jury! If you can't
get a jury to convict in a case like that, you are unlikely to get
anywhere in cases without such a damning statement from the driver.
Unfortunately, it has become so ingrained in our culture that
these things are just "accidents" that it will be difficult to see
a shift in holding people accountable.
Kevin
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Clayton Griessmeyer via Bikies <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
To: "'Peter Gray'" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>,
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: "'Bikies ListServe'" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:41:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Bikies] crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt
In addition to the vulnerable user law, we should encourage
prosecutors to file and try these cases (especially where a fellow
cyclist is gone forever), rather than just allow the prosecutor to
claim they don’t think they can win if it goes to trial. One side
loses every single jury trial that goes to verdict. I would
expect that a surviving family member would rather a prosecutor
lose a jury trial than agree to a $200 fine and claim the driver
didn’t violate any criminal law.
Further, the prosecutors in Wisconsin usually don’t even /file/ a
criminal case against drivers who kill bicyclists, much less try
them. If they merely filed a criminal case, it is likely there
would be a plea to a criminal charge and the survivors would be
able to give their thoughts to the sentencing judge. Of the
110,241 criminal cases filed in Wisconsin last year, 82,076
settled before trial with 25,398 getting dismissed before trial.
According to Wisconsin Circuit Court Statistics, in 2015, there
were 36,426 felony cases filed and 49,298 misdemeanors filed,
along with 24,517 criminal traffic cases. There were a total of
1,429 jury trials and 137 court trials. It’s not too much to ask
a prosecutor to file or try a case where someone was killed by a
person.
From Peter’s link below where driver fell asleep behind the wheel,
crossed the center line and killed a fellow cyclist:
“Winnebago County Asst. Dist. Atty. Anthony Prekop reviewed the
case and determined he would not be able to prove Noskowiak
committed criminal negligence, under current state law. That law
would require Prekop to convince a jury that Noskowiak knew or
should have known that her actions were likely to hurt or kill
someone.
She worked a night shift, felt tired and fell asleep at the wheel.
“How do you convince a jury of her peers that this is criminal
behavior?” Prekop said. “We are bound by what the legislature
dictates.”
If A.D.A. Prekop would have filed and tried this case as homicide
by negligent operation of a vehicle contrary to Wis. Stat. 940.10,
he would have needed to prove:
1.Defendant operated vehicle (this would be stipulated to);
2.Defendant operated vehicle in manner constituting criminal
negligence which means:
A. defendant’s operation of vehicle created risk of death or great
bodily harm (don’t think any juror would disagree that if you are
asleep while moving behind the wheel there is a risk of death) And
B. risk of great bodily harm was unreasonable and substantial
(don’t think any juror would disagree that the risk of great
bodily harm from sleeping behind the wheel is unreasonable and
substantial) AND
C. the defendant should have been aware that his or her operation
of a vehicle created the unreasonable and substantial risk of
death or great bodily harm. (I have never fallen asleep behind
the wheel, I have never hit something or someone with a vehicle, I
do not know any friends or family who have fallen asleep behind
the wheel. Before I fall asleep, I start to feel tired. In my
entire adult life I have never fallen asleep standing up, using
the bathroom, playing a game, talking to someone, riding a bike,
driving a car, or doing any other volitional act. **Unless someone
suffers from a medical condition where they fall asleep without
any warning, the person should be aware that they are about to
fall asleep, and at that point, they need to immediately stop
driving.***
3.Defendant’s criminal negligence caused the death of victim.
(non-issue. Driver crossed center line and struck and killed
bicyclist while sleeping behind the wheel.
The lack of even charging or trying these cases infuriates me.
Several years ago, a Dane County A.D.A. filed a felony forgery
case against a person for signing the person’s name and also
signing the person’s spouse’s name to a check in the amount of
$19.66 made out to both of them. According to testimony in court,
the person had signed the spouse’s name many times before with
permission, but during the time in question, the bank new the
couple was separating, so they refused to cash the check. This
case went to jury trial (a case involving a $19.66 check that was
never even cashed!). There was no victim! We won, the A.D.A.
lost/jury found the person not guilty. If a case like this can go
to felony jury trial, A.D.A.’s should at a minimum /file /criminal
charges when someone falls asleep while moving, crosses the
centerline, and takes someone off of this earth for ever and ever.
Peace,
Clay
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 3:32 PM via Bikies
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt (via Bikies)
2. Re: crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt (Peter Gray via Bikies)
3. Re: crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt (Clayton Griessmeyer via
Bikies)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: via Bikies <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Cc:
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 08:51:30 -0400
Subject: [Bikies] crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt
I saw this yesterday on my way to work:
http://www.channel3000.com/news/Bicyclist-hit-at-intersection-when-driver-runs-red-light-officials-say/41667212
The article says they were "non-life threatening" injuries. It
also says:
The driver of the truck, a 36-year-old man, was cited for a red
signal violation.
So, what's the penalty for carelessly not-quite-killing someone?
--
--
darin burleigh
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Peter Gray via Bikies <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Cc: Bikies ListServe <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 09:43:27 -0500
Subject: Re: [Bikies] crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt
"What's the penalty for carelessly not-quite-killing someone?"
Often nothing. (also true if you remove the "not-quite" from
your question)
Here's a recent Wisconsin Bike Fed blog post about this issue:
Fines Total $248 for Falling Asleep, Killing Father of Three
<http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/2016/03/30/fines-total-248-for-falling-asleep-killing-father-of-three/>
http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/2016/03/30/fines-total-248-for-falling-asleep-killing-father-of-three/
The Bike Fed has been working for years to change this. (just
google wisconsin bike fed vulnerable user) If you want this to
change, please join
<http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/individual-members/> and
support <http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/supportdonate/>
the Bike Fed.
http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/individual-members/
http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/supportdonate/
Peter
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 7:51 AM, via Bikies
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
I saw this yesterday on my way to work:
http://www.channel3000.com/news/Bicyclist-hit-at-intersection-when-driver-runs-red-light-officials-say/41667212
The article says they were "non-life threatening"
injuries. It also says:
The driver of the truck, a 36-year-old man, was cited
for a red signal violation.
So, what's the penalty for carelessly not-quite-killing
someone?
--
--
darin burleigh
_______________________________________________
Bikies mailing list
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Clayton Griessmeyer via Bikies <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
To: "'Peter Gray'" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>, <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: "'Bikies ListServe'" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:41:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Bikies] crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt
In addition to the vulnerable user law, we should encourage
prosecutors to file and try these cases (especially where a
fellow cyclist is gone forever), rather than just allow the
prosecutor to claim they don’t think they can win if it goes
to trial. One side loses every single jury trial that goes to
verdict. I would expect that a surviving family member would
rather a prosecutor lose a jury trial than agree to a $200
fine and claim the driver didn’t violate any criminal law.
Further, the prosecutors in Wisconsin usually don’t even
/file/ a criminal case against drivers who kill bicyclists,
much less try them. If they merely filed a criminal case, it
is likely there would be a plea to a criminal charge and the
survivors would be able to give their thoughts to the
sentencing judge. Of the 110,241 criminal cases filed in
Wisconsin last year, 82,076 settled before trial with 25,398
getting dismissed before trial.
According to Wisconsin Circuit Court Statistics, in 2015,
there were 36,426 felony cases filed and 49,298 misdemeanors
filed, along with 24,517 criminal traffic cases. There were a
total of 1,429 jury trials and 137 court trials. It’s not too
much to ask a prosecutor to file or try a case where someone
was killed by a person.
From Peter’s link below where driver fell asleep behind the
wheel, crossed the center line and killed a fellow cyclist:
“Winnebago County Asst. Dist. Atty. Anthony Prekop reviewed
the case and determined he would not be able to prove
Noskowiak committed criminal negligence, under current state
law. That law would require Prekop to convince a jury that
Noskowiak knew or should have known that her actions were
likely to hurt or kill someone.
She worked a night shift, felt tired and fell asleep at the wheel.
“How do you convince a jury of her peers that this is criminal
behavior?” Prekop said. “We are bound by what the legislature
dictates.”
If A.D.A. Prekop would have filed and tried this case as
homicide by negligent operation of a vehicle contrary to Wis.
Stat. 940.10, he would have needed to prove:
1.Defendant operated vehicle (this would be stipulated to);
2.Defendant operated vehicle in manner constituting criminal
negligence which means:
A. defendant’s operation of vehicle created risk of death or
great bodily harm (don’t think any juror would disagree that
if you are asleep while moving behind the wheel there is a
risk of death) And
B. risk of great bodily harm was unreasonable and substantial
(don’t think any juror would disagree that the risk of great
bodily harm from sleeping behind the wheel is unreasonable and
substantial) AND
C. the defendant should have been aware that his or her
operation of a vehicle created the unreasonable and
substantial risk of death or great bodily harm. (I have never
fallen asleep behind the wheel, I have never hit something or
someone with a vehicle, I do not know any friends or family
who have fallen asleep behind the wheel. Before I fall
asleep, I start to feel tired. In my entire adult life I have
never fallen asleep standing up, using the bathroom, playing a
game, talking to someone, riding a bike, driving a car, or
doing any other volitional act. **Unless someone suffers from
a medical condition where they fall asleep without any
warning, the person should be aware that they are about to
fall asleep, and at that point, they need to immediately stop
driving.***
3.Defendant’s criminal negligence caused the death of victim.
(non-issue. Driver crossed center line and struck and killed
bicyclist while sleeping behind the wheel.
The lack of even charging or trying these cases infuriates
me. Several years ago, a Dane County A.D.A. filed a felony
forgery case against a person for signing the person’s name
and also signing the person’s spouse’s name to a check in the
amount of $19.66 made out to both of them. According to
testimony in court, the person had signed the spouse’s name
many times before with permission, but during the time in
question, the bank new the couple was separating, so they
refused to cash the check. This case went to jury trial (a
case involving a $19.66 check that was never even cashed!).
There was no victim! We won, the A.D.A. lost/jury found the
person not guilty. If a case like this can go to felony jury
trial, A.D.A.’s should at a minimum /file /criminal charges
when someone falls asleep while moving, crosses the
centerline, and takes someone off of this earth for ever and
ever.
Peace,
Clay
*From:*Bikies [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of
*Peter Gray via Bikies
*Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:43 AM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Cc:* Bikies ListServe <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Subject:* Re: [Bikies] crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt
"What's the penalty for carelessly not-quite-killing someone?"
Often nothing. (also true if you remove the "not-quite" from
your question)
Here's a recent Wisconsin Bike Fed blog post about this issue:
Fines Total $248 for Falling Asleep, Killing Father of Three
<http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/2016/03/30/fines-total-248-for-falling-asleep-killing-father-of-three/>
http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/2016/03/30/fines-total-248-for-falling-asleep-killing-father-of-three/
The Bike Fed has been working for years to change this. (just
google wisconsin bike fed vulnerable user) If you want this to
change, please join
<http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/individual-members/> and
support <http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/supportdonate/>
the Bike Fed.
http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/individual-members/
http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/supportdonate/
Peter
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 7:51 AM, via Bikies
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
I saw this yesterday on my way to work:
http://www.channel3000.com/news/Bicyclist-hit-at-intersection-when-driver-runs-red-light-officials-say/41667212
The article says they were "non-life threatening"
injuries. It also says:
The driver of the truck, a 36-year-old man, was cited
for a red signal violation.
So, what's the penalty for carelessly not-quite-killing
someone?
--
--
darin burleigh
_______________________________________________
Bikies mailing list
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
_______________________________________________
Bikies mailing list
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
--
--
Kevin Luecke
Sent from my phone, please excuse any typos
_______________________________________________
Bikies mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
