I agree this incident ought be reported as a preventable "crash", and not a so-called "accident". .Accidents may and do happen, but referring to a certain "crash" as an "accident" requires judgement on the part of the reporter, who undoubtedly did not personally witness the incident.
Mike On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 11:32 PM, William Hauda via Bikies < [email protected]> wrote: > I echo John Rider's comments about describing these incidents as > "accidents." Accidents have no cause, but the deaths of cyclists do. > > On 9/15/2016 11:11 PM, John Rider via Bikies wrote: > > This is going to take a consistent effort from lots of people to solve. > Whenever we see someone use the term “accident,” we need to call them out > and educate them to use the word “crash.” Any radio report, any newspaper > report, where ever. There was just an article on Active.com entitled “How > to Handle a Bike Accident” so I posted the following comment which received > a couple of likes and another supportive comment: > > > > Please, please, please banish the word “accident” from your vocabulary. > The word “accident” implies: Oops, it just kind of happened, it couldn’t > have been prevented, could have happened to anybody, I’m really sorry. We > need to call this what it is, it is a Crash. Crashes are preventable > occurrences where someone made a bad decision or was negligent and is at > fault. An accident is when a tree branch falls on or in front of you, or > lightning strikes, or a squirrel runs out in front of you and causes you to > crash. (There’s that word again, you could make a strong case that the > bicyclist was driving too fast for conditions and is responsible for not > being able to safely avoid the squirrel.) Crashes are no Accident! > > > > If we all keep responding consistently, maybe we will slowly change that > “oops” attitude towards these crashes. This is not to say that we should > not also work on all of the channels people mentioned earlier in this > thread, but all of us can work on that media bias and public perception of > “accidents” and maybe eventually make a difference. > > > > John Rider > > > > *From:* Bikies [mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Peter Gray via Bikies > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 10:21 PM > *To:* Kevin Luecke <[email protected]> <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Bikies ListServe <[email protected]> <[email protected]>; > [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [Bikies] crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt > > > > +1 to Kevin: "Unfortunately, it has become so ingrained in our culture > that these things are just 'accidents' that it will be difficult to see a > shift in holding people accountable." > > Personally I get that there's a difference between negligence and intent, > when it comes to applying criminal punishment to a tragic "accident". > > But at a minimum, shouldn't someone whose careless driving causes serious > harm, lose their driving privileges, and have to earn them back through > driver education? (and I could ask the same for gun ownership) > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Kevin Luecke <[email protected]> wrote: > > There was a good piece in the State Journal a while back about charges > being filed (or not) in the case of car-bike crashes: > > http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/when-cyclists-die- > a-closer-look-at-dane-county-crashes/article_d5068be2-0ff0- > 5b21-a31f-891890c9daf1.html > > > > I agree with Peter about the need for a Vulnerable Users law, and I worked > with the legislature a few years back while I was with the Bike Fed to pass > such a law; unfortunately it didn't make it out of committee. > > > > I also agree with Clayton that prosecutors should bring more cases to > trail and let juries decide about guilt. However, I also see the > prosecutors' point of view: in 2005 Jessica Bullen was stuck and killed by > a driver who admitted he WAS LOOKING AT THE BACK OF HIS THROAT IN HIS > MIRROR when he hit her. The driver was tried for negligent homicide, and > was acquitted by the jury! If you can't get a jury to convict in a case > like that, you are unlikely to get anywhere in cases without such a damning > statement from the driver. > > > > Unfortunately, it has become so ingrained in our culture that these things > are just "accidents" that it will be difficult to see a shift in holding > people accountable. > > > > Kevin > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Clayton Griessmeyer via Bikies <[email protected]> > To: "'Peter Gray'" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> > Cc: "'Bikies ListServe'" <[email protected]> > Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:41:03 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Bikies] crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt > > In addition to the vulnerable user law, we should encourage prosecutors to > file and try these cases (especially where a fellow cyclist is gone > forever), rather than just allow the prosecutor to claim they don’t think > they can win if it goes to trial. One side loses every single jury trial > that goes to verdict. I would expect that a surviving family member would > rather a prosecutor lose a jury trial than agree to a $200 fine and claim > the driver didn’t violate any criminal law. > > > > Further, the prosecutors in Wisconsin usually don’t even *file* a > criminal case against drivers who kill bicyclists, much less try them. If > they merely filed a criminal case, it is likely there would be a plea to a > criminal charge and the survivors would be able to give their thoughts to > the sentencing judge. Of the 110,241 criminal cases filed in Wisconsin > last year, 82,076 settled before trial with 25,398 getting dismissed before > trial. > > > > According to Wisconsin Circuit Court Statistics, in 2015, there were > 36,426 felony cases filed and 49,298 misdemeanors filed, along with 24,517 > criminal traffic cases. There were a total of 1,429 jury trials and 137 > court trials. It’s not too much to ask a prosecutor to file or try a case > where someone was killed by a person. > > > > From Peter’s link below where driver fell asleep behind the wheel, crossed > the center line and killed a fellow cyclist: > > “Winnebago County Asst. Dist. Atty. Anthony Prekop reviewed the case and > determined he would not be able to prove Noskowiak committed criminal > negligence, under current state law. That law would require Prekop to > convince a jury that Noskowiak knew or should have known that her actions > were likely to hurt or kill someone. > > She worked a night shift, felt tired and fell asleep at the wheel. > > “How do you convince a jury of her peers that this is criminal behavior?” > Prekop said. “We are bound by what the legislature dictates.” > > > > If A.D.A. Prekop would have filed and tried this case as homicide by > negligent operation of a vehicle contrary to Wis. Stat. 940.10, he would > have needed to prove: > > > > 1. Defendant operated vehicle (this would be stipulated to); > > 2. Defendant operated vehicle in manner constituting criminal > negligence which means: > > A. defendant’s operation of vehicle created risk of death or great bodily > harm (don’t think any juror would disagree that if you are asleep while > moving behind the wheel there is a risk of death) And > > B. risk of great bodily harm was unreasonable and substantial (don’t think > any juror would disagree that the risk of great bodily harm from sleeping > behind the wheel is unreasonable and substantial) AND > > C. the defendant should have been aware that his or her operation of a > vehicle created the unreasonable and substantial risk of death or great > bodily harm. (I have never fallen asleep behind the wheel, I have never > hit something or someone with a vehicle, I do not know any friends or > family who have fallen asleep behind the wheel. Before I fall asleep, I > start to feel tired. In my entire adult life I have never fallen asleep > standing up, using the bathroom, playing a game, talking to someone, riding > a bike, driving a car, or doing any other volitional act. **Unless someone > suffers from a medical condition where they fall asleep without any > warning, the person should be aware that they are about to fall asleep, and > at that point, they need to immediately stop driving.*** > > 3. Defendant’s criminal negligence caused the death of victim. > (non-issue. Driver crossed center line and struck and killed bicyclist > while sleeping behind the wheel. > > > > The lack of even charging or trying these cases infuriates me. Several > years ago, a Dane County A.D.A. filed a felony forgery case against a > person for signing the person’s name and also signing the person’s spouse’s > name to a check in the amount of $19.66 made out to both of them. > According to testimony in court, the person had signed the spouse’s name > many times before with permission, but during the time in question, the > bank new the couple was separating, so they refused to cash the check. > This case went to jury trial (a case involving a $19.66 check that was > never even cashed!). There was no victim! We won, the A.D.A. lost/jury > found the person not guilty. If a case like this can go to felony jury > trial, A.D.A.’s should at a minimum *file *criminal charges when someone > falls asleep while moving, crosses the centerline, and takes someone off of > this earth for ever and ever. > > > > Peace, > > > > Clay > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 3:32 PM via Bikies <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Send Bikies mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Bikies digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt (via Bikies) > 2. Re: crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt (Peter Gray via Bikies) > 3. Re: crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt (Clayton Griessmeyer via Bikies) > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: via Bikies <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: > Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 08:51:30 -0400 > Subject: [Bikies] crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt > I saw this yesterday on my way to work: > http://www.channel3000.com/news/Bicyclist-hit-at- > intersection-when-driver-runs-red-light-officials-say/41667212 > > The article says they were "non-life threatening" injuries. It also says: > > The driver of the truck, a 36-year-old man, was cited for a red > signal violation. > > So, what's the penalty for carelessly not-quite-killing someone? > > -- > -- > darin burleigh > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Peter Gray via Bikies <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: Bikies ListServe <[email protected]> > > Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 09:43:27 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Bikies] crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt > > "What's the penalty for carelessly not-quite-killing someone?" Often > nothing. (also true if you remove the "not-quite" from your question) > > > > Here's a recent Wisconsin Bike Fed blog post about this issue: > > > Fines Total $248 for Falling Asleep, Killing Father of Three > <http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/2016/03/30/fines-total-248-for-falling-asleep-killing-father-of-three/> > > http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/2016/03/30/fines-total- > 248-for-falling-asleep-killing-father-of-three/ > > > > The Bike Fed has been working for years to change this. (just google > wisconsin bike fed vulnerable user) If you want this to change, please > join <http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/individual-members/> and > support <http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/supportdonate/> the Bike > Fed. > > > > http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/individual-members/ > > http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/supportdonate/ > > > > Peter > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 7:51 AM, via Bikies <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I saw this yesterday on my way to work: > http://www.channel3000.com/news/Bicyclist-hit-at- > intersection-when-driver-runs-red-light-officials-say/41667212 > > The article says they were "non-life threatening" injuries. It also says: > > The driver of the truck, a 36-year-old man, was cited for a red signal > violation. > > So, what's the penalty for carelessly not-quite-killing someone? > > -- > -- > darin burleigh > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Clayton Griessmeyer via Bikies <[email protected]> > To: "'Peter Gray'" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> > Cc: "'Bikies ListServe'" <[email protected]> > > Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:41:03 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Bikies] crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt > > In addition to the vulnerable user law, we should encourage prosecutors to > file and try these cases (especially where a fellow cyclist is gone > forever), rather than just allow the prosecutor to claim they don’t think > they can win if it goes to trial. One side loses every single jury trial > that goes to verdict. I would expect that a surviving family member would > rather a prosecutor lose a jury trial than agree to a $200 fine and claim > the driver didn’t violate any criminal law. > > > > Further, the prosecutors in Wisconsin usually don’t even *file* a > criminal case against drivers who kill bicyclists, much less try them. If > they merely filed a criminal case, it is likely there would be a plea to a > criminal charge and the survivors would be able to give their thoughts to > the sentencing judge. Of the 110,241 criminal cases filed in Wisconsin > last year, 82,076 settled before trial with 25,398 getting dismissed before > trial. > > > > According to Wisconsin Circuit Court Statistics, in 2015, there were > 36,426 felony cases filed and 49,298 misdemeanors filed, along with 24,517 > criminal traffic cases. There were a total of 1,429 jury trials and 137 > court trials. It’s not too much to ask a prosecutor to file or try a case > where someone was killed by a person. > > > > From Peter’s link below where driver fell asleep behind the wheel, crossed > the center line and killed a fellow cyclist: > > “Winnebago County Asst. Dist. Atty. Anthony Prekop reviewed the case and > determined he would not be able to prove Noskowiak committed criminal > negligence, under current state law. That law would require Prekop to > convince a jury that Noskowiak knew or should have known that her actions > were likely to hurt or kill someone. > > She worked a night shift, felt tired and fell asleep at the wheel. > > “How do you convince a jury of her peers that this is criminal behavior?” > Prekop said. “We are bound by what the legislature dictates.” > > > > If A.D.A. Prekop would have filed and tried this case as homicide by > negligent operation of a vehicle contrary to Wis. Stat. 940.10, he would > have needed to prove: > > > > 1. Defendant operated vehicle (this would be stipulated to); > > 2. Defendant operated vehicle in manner constituting criminal > negligence which means: > > A. defendant’s operation of vehicle created risk of death or great bodily > harm (don’t think any juror would disagree that if you are asleep while > moving behind the wheel there is a risk of death) And > > B. risk of great bodily harm was unreasonable and substantial (don’t think > any juror would disagree that the risk of great bodily harm from sleeping > behind the wheel is unreasonable and substantial) AND > > C. the defendant should have been aware that his or her operation of a > vehicle created the unreasonable and substantial risk of death or great > bodily harm. (I have never fallen asleep behind the wheel, I have never > hit something or someone with a vehicle, I do not know any friends or > family who have fallen asleep behind the wheel. Before I fall asleep, I > start to feel tired. In my entire adult life I have never fallen asleep > standing up, using the bathroom, playing a game, talking to someone, riding > a bike, driving a car, or doing any other volitional act. **Unless someone > suffers from a medical condition where they fall asleep without any > warning, the person should be aware that they are about to fall asleep, and > at that point, they need to immediately stop driving.*** > > 3. Defendant’s criminal negligence caused the death of victim. > (non-issue. Driver crossed center line and struck and killed bicyclist > while sleeping behind the wheel. > > > > The lack of even charging or trying these cases infuriates me. Several > years ago, a Dane County A.D.A. filed a felony forgery case against a > person for signing the person’s name and also signing the person’s spouse’s > name to a check in the amount of $19.66 made out to both of them. > According to testimony in court, the person had signed the spouse’s name > many times before with permission, but during the time in question, the > bank new the couple was separating, so they refused to cash the check. > This case went to jury trial (a case involving a $19.66 check that was > never even cashed!). There was no victim! We won, the A.D.A. lost/jury > found the person not guilty. If a case like this can go to felony jury > trial, A.D.A.’s should at a minimum *file *criminal charges when someone > falls asleep while moving, crosses the centerline, and takes someone off of > this earth for ever and ever. > > > > Peace, > > > > Clay > > > > > > *From:* Bikies [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Peter > Gray via Bikies > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:43 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Cc:* Bikies ListServe <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [Bikies] crash @ Mdvale/Mineral Pt > > > > "What's the penalty for carelessly not-quite-killing someone?" Often > nothing. (also true if you remove the "not-quite" from your question) > > > > Here's a recent Wisconsin Bike Fed blog post about this issue: > > > Fines Total $248 for Falling Asleep, Killing Father of Three > <http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/2016/03/30/fines-total-248-for-falling-asleep-killing-father-of-three/> > > http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/2016/03/30/fines-total- > 248-for-falling-asleep-killing-father-of-three/ > > > > The Bike Fed has been working for years to change this. (just google > wisconsin bike fed vulnerable user) If you want this to change, please > join <http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/individual-members/> and > support <http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/supportdonate/> the Bike > Fed. > > > > http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/individual-members/ > > http://www.wisconsinbikefed.org/join/supportdonate/ > > > > Peter > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 7:51 AM, via Bikies <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I saw this yesterday on my way to work: > http://www.channel3000.com/news/Bicyclist-hit-at- > intersection-when-driver-runs-red-light-officials-say/41667212 > > The article says they were "non-life threatening" injuries. It also says: > > The driver of the truck, a 36-year-old man, was cited for a red signal > violation. > > So, what's the penalty for carelessly not-quite-killing someone? > > -- > -- > darin burleigh > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > -- > > -- > Kevin Luecke > Sent from my phone, please excuse any typos > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing > [email protected]http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > >
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