Lorin, get off on your bad self! An EXCELLENT summary. Thanks.
E On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Lorin wrote: > > Came across the posting below on a local job board. It's interesting > > to see the same issues from blue collar labor unions concerned about > > Even the blue collar labor unions are modifying their anti-immigrant > stances. With the reality that a huge percentage of manual labor > positions are, and will continue to be filled by immigrants, many of the > larger unions are now recruiting heavily among mexican and south-east > asian american communities. > > The rationale is that improving having the union workers and the immigrant > workers at each others throats only helps the big corporations who can > play them off against each other. Representing both local and immigrant > groups gives unions much more power. > > The other reality is that union memberships within the US are fairly > stagnant, and much like the corporations they are supposedly fighting, > they have to continue to grow to survive. A massive pool of millions of > unrepresented workers pretty enticing. > > > foreign labor coming up in the high tech sector. Rather than > > exporting the work as the manufacturing sector does to the third > > world, the high tech sector imports its cheap labor. I wonder why > > As in other sectors, they do both. Ask anyone who works for a development > firm if they've ever lost a bid to India, Maylasia, or Thailand. > > > that is. Perhaps because the tech workers are paid a living wage, > > they can afford to live in the U.S. and spend their earnings here, > > whereas as a third world factory worker could not afford to live here > > on what they make. > > > Or maybe it's more important for high tech labor to be close to the > > heart of things. This brings up again a paradox of the high tech > > A large amount of them send their wages back to their homelands to support > their families. But that wasn't really your point. > > > As to why they bring workers here, rather than export labor, i think > it is just the first step. There is a fair amount of infrastructure > needed to support a large tech sector that is still growing in third world > countries. Things like access to computers, fast internet connections, > and stable electricity. As those things have improved, more and more jobs > are being transferred overseas. I don't think there's anything intrinsic > about the tech sector that prevents it from being exported. It's > certainly easier to ship code than cars. > > > valley. Why are Nike and the Gap happy to ship their factories > > abroad, but big information technology players like HP concentrating > > their workforce in pricey Santa Clara? > > > HP is a distinct case in that they have until recently been reputed to be > an excellent place to work. They treated their employees very well, had a > low turnover, etc. So they are not really indicative of the whole > industry. Most chips are fab'ed in Asia, Apple, Dell and everyone else, > has their laptops assembled in China or Thailand. In fact i think most > hardware in general is produced in Asia, but i could be wrong. > > As for the article, i really hate these 'close the door' mindsets. Indian > and russian programmers are losing their jobs too, and it sucks even worse > for them. You can't collect unemployment, you definately can't get a new > job, i mean who's gonna shell out $1,000 for a new H1-B application for > you when they might have to lay you off in 3-4 months? > > A lot of these guys have been living here for years, and have homes and > families here, in addition to supporting relatives in their home > countries. Now they have to pick up and leave, and try to find a job > under way worse conditions than California. I've talked to dudes who were > only a couple of months away from getting their citizenships. > > I get annoyed at people who feel they have a more intrisic right to work, > just because they're grandfather immigrated here instead of their father. > The problem is not how many H1-b visas are alowed in, it is that companies > are allowed to pay them less, and work them harder in the same jobs. > > If people of the same skill level, were payed the same regardless of > background, there wouldn't be a huge desire to import foreign labor. So > in a sense, the problem is not unique to the Tech industry, and is in fact > the same problem the blue collar unions are facing. The only difference > is the Blue collar guys are finally beginning to stop blaming the only > people poorer than them. > > -Lkb > > > _______________________________________________ > Bits mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.sugoi.org/mailman/listinfo/bits > -- Erik Curiel almost web-engineer/would-be philosopher "The affairs of human beings are not worthy of great seriousness, and yet we must take them seriously." ---Plato, *The Laws* _______________________________________________ Bits mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sugoi.org/mailman/listinfo/bits
