>>>>> "Lorin" == Lorin  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

    Lorin> I get annoyed at people who feel they have a more intrisic
    Lorin> right to work, just because they're grandfather immigrated
    Lorin> here instead of their father.  The problem is not how many
    Lorin> H1-b visas are alowed in, it is that companies are allowed
    Lorin> to pay them less, and work them harder in the same jobs.

Well put.  This view of US citizenship does the world much harm. I
used to think it contradictory that Americans spout freedom rhetoric
while supporting oppressive monarchies.  Now I just think its cynical.
We do support freedom -- for citizens, as we have since the slave
days.  Only now, loosely speaking, the slaves live outside the
country.  [Erik: did the slave owning ancient greeks consider freedom
to be a virtue?]

    Lorin> The only difference is the Blue collar guys are finally
    Lorin> beginning to stop blaming the only people poorer than them.

An interesting idea.  I wonder if it's really true.  It's hard for me
to imagine the beer swilling American Joe snuggling up to his hispanic
comrades.  Where have you read/learned/experienced this trend?  It
looks like everybody and their mother is angling to get into bed with
the hispanics.  Demographics: if you can't beat em, join em.

JDH

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