On Tue, Apr 03, 2012 at 11:26:01AM -0500, Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> Ken Moffat wrote:
> 
> I suppose I should build gnome in /opt/gnome to check it out.  I've been 
> trying out Ubuntu on a new box lately and find the user interface 
> terrible (I switched it to KDE).
> 
 It's not so much the poor UI I dislike as the general dumbing-down
of the applications (simple examples - a few versions ago, gcalctool
had memories for storing and recalling values.  Now, I have to open
multiple instances and paste the item I would prefer to store.  Or
gucharmap - the explanatory text (e.g. on many 'exotic' lowercase
latin letters, telling you which languages they are used in, and
sometimes extra details such as preferred alternatives [ s with
cedilla, s with comma ] or occasionally where the corresponding
uppercase letter can be found) is truncated even if you expand the
window.).  So, my overall view is that gnome is disappointing.

> On ubuntu there is:
> 
> /etc/gnome
>    defaults.list  menus.blacklist
> /etc/gnome-app-install
>    packages-whitelist
> /etc/gnome-settings-daemon
>    xrandr/  (empty)
> /etc/gnome-vfs-2.0
>    modules/
>      default-modules.conf  extra-modules.conf
> 
> There is also ~/.gnome2
> 

 So, /etc/gnome and /etc/gnome-app-install appear to be for
packaging.  Their gnome-settings-daemon has sysconfdir=/etc - my own
has the similar structure at /etc/gnome/gnome-settings-daemon.

 I can't see the gnome-vfs-2.0 anywhere (I'm back on my new box) -
might be packaging, or might indicate that some parts of gnome are
2.30 or 2.32.  I did notice the other day that one of the packages
in ubuntu seems to be stuck at a 2.9x (i.e. development leading to
3.0) version.
> For kde, there is nothing in /etc, but there is in ~/.kde.
> 
> > 
> > 1.2 I suppose we could stress that anyone not building in /usr &&
> > /etc needs to provide symlinks in /etc/xdg if they want to use gdm ?
> 
> That seems a logical thing to do.
> 
 OK
> > 2.  The bootscript is old-style.  Works, but not in the current
> > Provides/Required-Start/... style.  If I was motivated, I could
> > probably come up with something, but whether it would have the
> > correct names for the variables is anybody's guess.  I still think
> > the old scripts were better because they were easy to understand -
> > no doubt there is a key somewhere explaining things such as
> > "$network", but I suspect it is in a locked drawer in a room marked
> > "beware of the leopard" ;-)
> 
> Not really:  http://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts
> 
 Thanks - I never noticed a reference in the earlier discussions.

> I can update the script easily enough if the commands are still current, 
> Are they basically still:
> 
>         start) loadproc gdm ;;
>          stop) if [ -f $pidfile ]; then loadproc gdm-stop; fi ;;
>        reload) loadproc gdm-safe-restart ;;
>       restart) loadproc gdm-restart ;;
> 
 Yes.

> > 3. The default gnome session installed by gdm (i.e. without d-bus)
> > reports an error, something along the lines of failing to find the
> > clock applet.  Since D-Bus is *required* for gnome (e.g. GConf needs
> > d-bus glib bindings), we could either overwrite the inadequate
> > version it supplies, or perhaps better (to retain the translations -
> > see attachment) sed Exec= and TryExec= to use the book's
> > preferences.  Either way, the sentence "If you have D-BUS installed
> > and you want to start the session D-BUS daemon..." needs to be
> > reworded.  I suspect the suggestion to use gdm without D-Bus is just
> > historical baggage, 
> 
> It is required for build.  daemon/main.c has an unconditional
> #include <dbus/dbus-glib.h>.
> 
> > but I don't understand why gdm ships a version
> > that can't find everything.  Maybe something else is in the wrong
> > place ?
> 
> Perhaps we could find the search locations from the source?
> It looks like you can toggle debug messages with the signal USR1.
> 

 Perhaps, but I'm insufficiently motivated at the moment (I would
have to reinstate the old file so that I could make a note of what
the exact error was, and I suspect the search will be difficult).

 For any regular application, strace would be the way to go.  But
trying to strace a dm seems too painful.

> > 4. For many of the PAM files in /etc/pam.d we chmod them to 644
> > after root has created them, but for a couple of newer ones the
> > chmod is not mentioned.  Looking at my results, they are 644 -
> > should be keep the chmod in case people have weird settings, and
> > therefore do it for all these files, or can we just assume
> > everything will be ok ?
> 
> It really depends on umask.  I'd say we need to be consistent.
OK, consistency will rule, I'll add it.
> 
> >  I'll also note that something about the gdm window (probably the
> > buttons - they seem a bit OS9, i.e 1990s mac) offends my sense of
> > taste: usually I don't particularly care, and the striped blue
> > background looks ok if you like that sort of thing, but I do wonder
> > where they are going with this.  Perhaps it looks better on more
> > powerful hardware which doesn't use the fallback - even the Sandy
> > Bridge i3/i965 I bought last week doesn't fit the bill for
> > gnome-shell, so who knows.
> 
> I think it's the video hw, not the cpu.

 Correct, that's why I mentioned the i965 part, although the kernel
lumps it in with other intel videos in i915:

00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation
Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)
(prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
        Subsystem: Giga-byte Technology Device d000
        Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 40
        Memory at f7800000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4M]
        Memory at e0000000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M]
        I/O ports at f000 [size=64]
        Expansion ROM at <unassigned> [disabled]
        Capabilities: [90] MSI: Enable+ Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit-
        Capabilities: [d0] Power Management version 2
        Capabilities: [a4] PCI Advanced Features
        Kernel driver in use: i915

 Mesa (7.11.2) has given me both i915_dri.so and i965_dri.so, so I
was expecting dri2 to work here.  No matter, in December I stripped
out most gnome packages from my normal desktop, and I don't see them
coming back anytime soon.
> 
> > I still plan to look at the gnome dependencies (to reduce what we
> > list by removing implicit deps), and I guess I can tag gdm as tested
> > in 7.0 - subject to agreement on dealing with the consequences of
> > not building in /usr and /etc.  But for the remaining points above,
> > I'm not sure.
> 
> If it basically works, then it works.  If we need to go back and add 
> some configuration issues later, than it sill works.
> 
>    -- Bruce

 Thanks for the comments.  I'll do some tidying.

ĸen
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